Hello to all of you, unconventional conventions. Welcome back to Rocky Talkie, the Rocky Horror Podcast, where we talk about anything and everything related to our favorite cult movie. I'm Aaron, I'm John. And joining us on air this week, we have one of our absolute favorite people in the entire world. Phil Dejan from the New York City, Rocky Horror Picture Show Cast. Hey, Phil. Hello. Uh long time listener. First time caller, Phil, we feel a little silly asking you this because of course, Aaron and I are very familiar with your place here within the Rocky community. But for those of our listeners who may not really be in the, know, could you give us a brief overview of what you've been up to Rocky Wise over the past couple of decades? Yes. My name is Phil de Jean. Uh A K A uh checker Phil. And I've been involved with Rocky Horror since the mid 19 eighties. I worked for Sal Piro and the Rocky Horror Picture Show Fan Club for many, many, many years. I've been a cast coordinator for the New York cast and uh there's some stuff about me in the book Creatures of the night. And, uh, I've done a little artwork for some Rocky horror magazines and websites you might have seen. So I'll leave it at that. I, I've done some stuff. I'm good. You guys like me, don't you? We absolutely love you, Phil. Thank you so much for joining us today. We can't even begin to tell you how grateful we are that you're on air with us today. Now, before we get started with the show, we do that thing. We like to take a moment. Ask each other, how was your week? Did you get up to anything fun, John, what were you up to uh this week was uh pretty good, pretty, pretty, pretty good, exhausting though. Absolutely exhausting. So, self promo time for those of you who don't know, I'm a streamer on Twitch and we've been for the past two weekends, we've been doing this like really, really interesting charity dating game called the Dad Chiller where I get 15 streamers and they essentially flirt with me live on stream for, you know, a couple of hours and then I cut people out, blah, blah, blah until we get down to number one. And it is a charity stream. So I have a link that people can donate to a charity for and the winning streamer who wins the dacha at the very very end. And the last episode is May 14th, which is the day before my birthday, that streamer is going to have all of that money that was donated during those streams sent to a charity of their choice. So, they're all out here representing a charity for them and flirting with me for, for good money. And we are currently recording this on a Sunday afternoon and The Bachelor was yesterday. So I'm still coming off of exhaustion from that stream. It, they're, they're so much fun. They're so entertaining and engaging. Think The Bachelor, if it's a bunch of nerds hitting on each other for about five hours instead of one hour and that's basically what you get. It was a wild fucking ride and I loved every single second of it. I'm just so dead. I'm so dead. Oh, I bet I, I caught a couple of minutes of it the other night and you were just so fucking on having a conversation about Pokemon or comics. I don't, I don't remember what it was but it looked like a ton of fun. Yeah, it's, it really is. It's super fun. I highly recommend if somebody needs some good background sound and you just are sick of hearing about Rocky Horror the entire time. I, I recommend looking at the, the vids for The Bachelor. However, in the first episode, there is a lot of talk of Rocky horror because one of the people who started in round one and is currently in round three spoilers, she's doing very well. Ariel from the Friday Night specials cast. Actually did the first date as Magenta. Wow, that's adorable. I love that. Yeah, it was fantastic. But, uh, these are probably some of the best streams that I've ever done objectively and subjectively. So I'm kind of riding a high from it right now. And our next episode is actually, unfortunately on April 30th, we're going into round three where the streamers actually have to take me on dates like virtual dates and they have 10 minutes to put together a virtual date for the two of us to go on and they're allowed to do whatever they want. I had somebody bake me a cake last night. I had somebody mail me something that was for the, the date that we had tonight. I had somebody redo their setup and they like put their camera on their ceiling on top of their bed. So they were like, yeah, they were like, they were like leaning and all like seductive and stuff like laying on their bed and shit while they were interviewing me. It's been fucking wild if I knew that kind of a party. Yeah. Oh, it is 100% that kind of party. What about you, Phil? What happened this past week? Well, among my many nerd, I'm also a kind of a Broadway nerd. So I went and I got to see American Buffalo. It was a David Mamet play and it was Mamet at his most ma uh there's Sam Rockwell in it and Lawrence Fishburn and some guy, uh, Chris, uh, something about his last name is Chris. Like Peter. Chris from Kiss Dare Chris. Yeah. And he, they were all really good. It was, it was, it was, it was a David Mamet play. It was like some toxic masculinity going on there. But you came there for it. This is what we came for and it was in the Rocky theater. It was circle in the square where, where uh the was. Yeah. Yeah, that's fun. That's fun as hell. I haven't seen that one. Yeah, I wanna, I, I, every single time I walk through the theater district, I'm also a big theater bitch. Um I, I really want to walk through there and, and see American Buffalo. I can get tickets to it right now. I have a part of a passport program through my work where I can get like $2040 tickets to a lot of shows and I can get them a lot for American Buffalo. I just haven't done it yet. Do you recommend? Oh, yes, I do. Um Just warning you some of the language is very salty. All right. I, I, I know that I, I listen to the podcast and I know that you guys uh don't talk done none of that naughty talking blue stuff here. Sorry, I know. I think that you guys might, you know, you just, you might want to put some cotton in your ears. For some of the talking. Thank you for the heads up. Er, what about you? What's, what's been happening? Oh, just a lot of rocky over here catching up on a ton of stuff after we got back from Buffalo. Unfortunately, when we got back, our wonderful dog, Dobby had a little bit, uh, a little bit of sick issues, so we had to take him over to the vet and, uh, you know, been going back and forth with him. He's doing great right now though. He's all better. He's sitting right over there watching us record. He heard his name a few times and perked up a little bit. And so, yeah. No, he's doing good now. It's just, uh, we've been doing that and I've been catching up on everything that I blew off so that we could have our awesome trip to Buffalo last week and that's our show. All right. Well, now that, that's out of the way, how about we just dive into our first segment. Go global media. Yeah. So this week we have two tiny stories from college. Rocky casts. First up COVID has gotten in the way of a Rocky performance at Muhlenberg College in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Yep. Typically the Muhlenberg Rocky Horror Club puts out two shows a year with COVID. Their performances has been on a hiatus but their show started up again last semester, their cast got back on track this Halloween with a circus themed performance titled Rocky Horror. Big Top show and a performance for this semester is Cowboy themed titled Rocky Ho Down Picture Show. Yeah. Oh, sorry Yeehaw is optional. The Ho Down Picture Show. All right. Unfortunately, after the university relaxed some of their on campus COVID measures, there is a rise in cases and the university put some of their safety measures back in place good on them along with the heightening of on campus COVID restrictions. The Rocky Horror Show for the spring semester was rescheduled originally set to occur this past Friday the eighth. The show is now set to present one month. From now on May 6th. All the members of the Muhlenberg Rocky Horror cast are in agreement that safety is paramount and they can't wait to perform in May will be rooting for you when the curtains drawn guys. So for now, let's head two states southward to Virginia for our next Rocky College piece. So James Harrison University in Harrisonburg, Virginia also has a Rocky Horror cast and they also had a Rocky Horror show scheduled this past Friday the eighth as well as shows on the ninth and the 10th, which were unfortunately canceled. What a coincidence though, in their case, it was due to technical issues and not, you know COVID related, but we're not here to talk about that Breeze TV, which is the J M U University news outlet recently did a piece on one of the members of the J M U Rocky cast, Marco Siber. They conducted a video interview of Marco where they talked about his on campus life with a particular focus on his interactions with Rocky Horror. He wakes up, he plays Werle has a philosophy class, whatever. That's not what we're here for. When he talks about his involvement in Rocky Horror. Marco uses a phrase we don't often hear in the Rocky sphere and one we thought would be really interesting to talk about body neutrality and no, that isn't a combat term for incapacitation. So Rocky Horror gets treated as a bastion of body positivity. Understandably. So Trixie is all about dancing around sexually in less and less clothing. Rocky spends the whole show in nothing but high pants and the whole movie ends with most of the cast dressing in corsets, body positivity is all about celebrating your body and enjoying everything about it. Body neutrality exists in contrast to that. It's about recognizing that your body is less important than everything else about you. As a person that has long struggled with body dysmorphia, it could be emotionally crippling. You don't want to be an emotional creep. Do you? In Marco's words? Even if I do think I'm super hot, then it's like still the least interesting thing about me. I'm funny and kind and smart. Imagine the fact that you're super hot being the least interesting thing about you. It is, it is by far the most interesting thing about me but Marco really brings up an interesting point like body positivity is all the rage because it lifts spirits and reassures people about, you know, the flesh person that they are currently existing in. And while you may at one point feel really good about yourself. Internal or external factors can kind of affect that opinion. Body neutrality is a way to circumvent this and erase the power. Any opinion of your body can have, don't try to convince yourself you love your body. Because in the next moment you find stuff about it you dislike instead what you have to keep in mind that other people's opinions of you are none of your damn business. You do, you bro, you just stay, you stay in your lane, just relax and just be you in a way. This is already how the Rocky Horror community operates. Crowds go wild every time Rocky's raps are pulled off regardless of how Rocky looks because it's not about his looks. It's about the fact that the performer is putting themselves out there. Frank gets a standing ovation for him going home, whether he has an Afro or uh no hair at all, not for any of us. You hear that meg. You hear that? I wrote it, preach my bro, preach and Hot Patuti will still have the whole theater clapping together. Whether Eddie is lifting his Columbia, whether she's lifting him or if they're just sitting on the floor playing, grab ass because neither one of them wants to lift the other and why? Because Rocky doesn't mind muffin top six pack, big boobies, little boobies, all boobies matter hair, no hair. All that stuff of a Rocky performer is dedicated to the sultry absurdity of Richard o'brien's masterpiece. We, of course, it with a smile on your face and a fire in your heart and it does not matter if a little skin is pushing up over the edges, just kick line like there's no tomorrow. So that's some food for thought. There's certainly never any harm in experimenting on how you view yourself. And Rocky is certainly a really good place to do it without worrying about being judged. Everybody at Rocky is hot because having the balls to perform in your underwear is such big dick energy that doing it automatically makes you hot. Damn right. Uh We'd like to thank Marco for opening up on air about this. It can be kind of difficult to talk about sometimes. So if you'd like to check out his video, we've got that link for you in our show notes. Hey, guys, before we wrap up community news, it's Aaron from the Future back to give you a quick follow up on last week's episode about getting the right to all your favorite films and stage shows. We had a number of folks write in and tell us about their stories navigating the legal minefield of acquiring film rights and we thought you might like a few other real world stories, Jamie from up in Buffalo, let us know about her quest to secure the rights for the room for the Francis Bacon Experiment. And despite what we might have cheekily said last week, she didn't have to negotiate with Mr High. I'm Mark himself. Tommy Wiis. The rep she spoke to was very straightforward to work with and the fees for licensing the film seem to be extremely reasonable. We're talking under 200 bucks with a very straightforward ticket sales cut of about 40%. So, hey, sounds like the rights won't be tearing you apart. Unlike Lisa, we also had a great conversation with John Davey who let us know that in addition to criterion, the licensing company, Swank motion pictures also seems to be in the business of getting you the rights for Rocky Horror. Now, this seems to be a relatively new kind of thing as Swank handled all the Disney non theatrical rights before they acquired Fox, I went and did some digging on their website. And while I couldn't find any details about licensing Rocky specifically, if you're in the market, you should definitely send them an email to one of their reps and just ask about it. Rumor has it that their rates might be even cheaper than booking through a regular movie theater connection. Obviously, your mileage might vary. But with all this stuff, it's about knowing your options. That's the key to getting your cast the best deal out there. That's it from the future. Thanks to everybody that wrote in and now back to our regularly scheduled program, let's move on to some community news. So this week in community news, we've got some really exciting stuff to share. First up, our collective dicks all became absolutely rock hard this week when casting opened up for some of the R O K four performances. That's right. The official casting calls for Rocky Shocky Ribo, the genetic opera Doctor Horrible sing along blog and Hedwig and the Angry Inch are all open so we can all start putting our audition material rules together for each of these shows. R K O will require submissions to contain at minimum one photo of you and costume for each role you're applying for plus a head shot to be used in the con booklet on the website that said audition videos are strongly encouraged as their funnest shit to watch and will give the casting teams a stronger sense of who you are as a performer. Yeah. One of the best parts of the hype leading up to a con is getting to sit and watch all the awesome con audition videos. Everyone always gets so creative and I'd imagine the video quality is gonna be even better now that we're all so used to putting on virtual performances and have two years of lockdown video and any, any skills under our belts. I'm really excited to see what everyone else comes with. I have a favorite video that I saw. I like Lizzie Bernard Magenta goes vegetable shopping. It's so creative and I'm glad to see that she actually won because of it. Oh Yeah, that was so many good things over the years. I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and say that my own videos are always my favorite. Um So if any of you saw Megan, my audition for last Star R K O Collin where we wanted to do Betty and Ralph. Uh we did a fun little video. It was right before our wedding. So we kind of did it themed like that. I think we might have a follow up for that one check back in with Betty and Ralph, see how they're doing and uh yeah, take a look for that coming up soon because we'll be putting that together. Meg stares at me dead eyed across the room as I commit her to even more work. But the deadline for submitting audition materials is June 15th. So we've got lots of time but make sure you start soon. We all know how long it can take to get costumes repaired and cleaned up, how long it takes to film, how long it takes to edit video. I mean, I feel like a lot of us kid ourselves that putting together one of these things is gonna take uh just a couple of hours and it ends up being a week or month long project, especially since it's probably been a couple of years since you've even taken your doctor horrible costume out of its bag. Right. Does it even still fit? Right. Did you, did you ever get around to fixing that rip? Like you said, you would, you gotta do all that before you even start thinking about filming. It? Sounds like you're talking to yourself. Right. My, my Eddie jacket's missing, missing a star that needs to be fixed. Oh, and yeah, and definitely important for people. Anybody doing a convention thing, please, please please wash your outfit. I mean, seriously, seriously, good to know. Nothing has changed on that in the last 40 years. We're not trying to scold you. We're just reminding you because we love you. So Phil, since we've got you here with us, we'd love to know cast of ours can't always have been this involved, right? Like, could you tell us a bit about how it's evolved over the years? Well, actually, I'm more of a behind the scenes kind of guy. I like back in the days like, like uh I remember the convention in 1990. It's more like uh I would just get, people would just come from and hand me cassettes and say play this cassette, you know, or the beginning of C DS. Remember those things had C DS nuts in your mouth. Ouch. You got me, man. I was waiting for that one. Yeah. Yeah. I, I can only imagine, especially for all of those big crazy events like that. Like, did you ever perform at a con? Can you tell us about, like your favorite con show? Oh, yeah. Right. Right. Like I was saying, I was always behind the scenes, kind of a guy, you know, I, I'm shy, my favorite convention of all times. It had to be the Beacon Theater. I think that's 1985. I mean, not to be like, I'm picking one from the past and stuff like that. Um I really enjoyed it when Dory Hartley sang because people did not know what to expect. And then she opened her mouth and her voice was just like, like this kind of tim era thing like nobody expected and everybody just like you hear everybody's collective jaw drop and then silence and to hear Dory sing, it was just like amazing. It was such a magical time. I've been chasing that dragon since I was a kid. I know the community has too. I mean, uh do went out for the 25th, I wanna say in L A also saying I'm going home there so good, huge highlight. Wish I could have been there one of these days. Somebody will come up with a recording of it. Now, I'll get to check it out. I even have a, a copy of uh Doris album, Blue Gin. I have it on CDC. D so C Ds nuts. Oh, never gets old. Now, what about you guys? Are either of you auditioning for shows at R K 04? Well, Meg has already started shopping for her fourth wedding dress so I think that might end up happening. Uh And I'm, I'm here for auditioning for Ralph and Betty again. I think that's super fun. You still get to see the whole show and you still get to be part of it. I absolutely love doing that rumor has it that we might want to audition for something in Rabo. I think that that could be uh really fun. I hear that I get a meg around in that one if I do it right. So you know any excuse to hit my wife, uh I'll take it. I don't think I'm gonna go in for Doctor Horrible or Hedwig. I love those shows, but I, I don't think that they're something that I want to take on right now. But uh yeah, gonna see and if any other shows come up, oh, we might be uh might be interested in some of those. So uh Wink, Wink. What about you, John, you uh going out for R K 04 this time. So here's the thing about me for applying these shows, obviously, I'm gonna apply to Rocky because it's Rocky, right? But just like R K 03 for those of you who don't know, I, I ended up playing both Buffy and Xander in uh once worth feeling uh because I was told by somebody in the community that I should and that is kind of how I roll with the alternative shows. It's like I usually won't apply for them or put in for them unless someone's like, hey, you should put in for this because I thrive off of other people's compliments and approval because that's who I am as a person. So I will be applying for Rocky and I have heard that there are people who want me to apply for Hedwig. So I'll probably be putting in for Hedwig as well. That is most likely where I'm probably gonna draw the line there. So as it stands right now, I'm probably gonna limit myself to Rocky and Hedwig. We'll see if anything else transpires if I'm needed anywhere else. But those are probably where I'm gonna be putting myself. Very cool. What about you, Phil? Are you auditioning for any roles for a K 04? I don't believe I shall unless they have something for, with old man like myself. So Dr Scott. All right. That I guess I'm all in. If any of our listeners are interested in auditioning, all the information will be available at the R K O K website which will have all the dates and submissions guidelines linked in our show notes. I always wanted to say in our show notes because I listen to you guys say it all day. Next up, we've got some fun news for anyone interested in seeing Rocky Horror, Go Aquatic Horror on the High Seas. Recently announced its inaugural cruise convention together with Royal Caribbean International. This eight day nautical convention will be providing eight days of fun for horror junkies. It's eight days in case you didn't hear that the first time participants will be at sea for eight days. You heard that right folks, eight days with some of our faves for eight days, Uncle Barry Patricia Quinn and the cast of the theater coven productions who will be entertaining guests with their freak show Noir, Rocky Horror, shadow cast performance for eight days. Also attending for eight days will be Doug Bradley who played pinhead in the first eight hellraiser movies. The ship will be sailing to Mexico, visiting portal at Roatan Costa Maya and Cozumel. And we have three full days at sea where attendees will enjoy horror themed entertainment, like a costume, cocktail party theaters, coins of performance Q and A sessions with Barry Pat and Doug and plus much, much more. Eight days. You heard it here. How many days will it be? Eight? Well, it says three at sea, wait a second, eight days and three at sea. That doesn't make sense. Well, if you wanted even more incentive to sign up, the 1st 50 guests will receive a complimentary dinner in one of the ship's special restaurants with one of the celebrities. What if I wanted to dine with the captain. Can I dine with the captain? Like in, in Titanic? Uh pro I mean, you got eight days. So you just got to get on his list. Yeah, dinner drinks, seasickness and a rocky shadow cast with Pat Quinn. 40th Con was fun. Uh Yes. Wait, seasickness. Ok. Well, not a lot of people know this but it's in her rider that she'll only ride the D train downtown in a waterbed. They have to ship them into any hotel that she stays at. John, neither you nor I was at 40th Con. No, no, no, no, he knows what he's talking about. Thank you. Anyway, speaking of being extra while it sounds fun. We should note that the total cost of this cruise per person is only $2874. Yikes. That's like basically a whole entire frank jacket. I think that's more than a frank jacket now with the, with pins and everything with the repos. Yeah, you can get it for cheaper. Yeah, this definitely will not be a low cost A K but if you're able to swing it, getting to spend eight days cruising to Mexico with Uncle Bear. Bear would be pretty damn cool if you think you can swing it or if you just want to check out the deeds in all eight days, we've got the website linked for you in our show notes. Yeah, I mean this trip does look like it's gonna be an absolute ton of fun. And we'd love to hear from anyone who is able to attend, hanging out with Barry and Pat would be cool, but we especially want to hear about the freak show Noir performance theater coven is such a new castt. And we've really been loving getting to hear all about the fantastic stuff that they've been up to in just such a short amount of time. And don't forget if you're in or around the Baltimore area. They've also got tickets for their June performances available for sale. Now, June 17th, 18th and 19th will be their pride weekend performances. So, you know, that show will be especially wild. We've got those linked for you in the show notes, if you'd like to check them out. And speaking of performances by fantastically talented black casts from the Baltimore area, we've got a great show on the horizon that's a bit closer to home and won't last eight days. Our community has been all about hangouts. Recently, lots of our members across the east coast have been visiting each other to share stage time and just to hang out and we have been all about it continuing this fun as hell trend. The J C C P our friends out in Pittsburgh have announced that they're going to be partnering with none other than the Chocolate covered Rocky Horror cast to bring us to a groovy 60 themed shadow cast performance just in time for a Pittsburgh pride. That's right. Come up to the lab on Saturday, June 4th for the Rocky Horror Sixties show. Think Rocky meets hair spray with all the fashion dance moves and social activism that goes with the era joining these two casts on stage. We'll also see members of the Sonic transducers from Washington DC and the Creative Alliance in Baltimore, which is a group of dancers, actors, pantomimes, drag performers and vocalists. If you can make it out to Pittsburgh, we cannot encourage you guys enough to check this one out. It's going to be an insanely good time. The J C C P are fantastic hosts and we're beyond Pump to see the chocolate covered Rocky cast getting involved with the community. Everything we've seen of their shows is just amazingly good. They've got a solid cast of just stupid talented people and we'd really love to see even more of them out there in the community. If you're interested in checking out this shit tickets are already available on event, right? For the low low low cost of $30 for a single ticket or 25 each if you buy two or more. And of course, we've got all those sweet sweet dates linked for you in our show notes and with that, I think it's time for a little snacky time. Uh No, no John John. John, don't worry, it's different. It's different this week it's a pack snack. Oh that makes it better. And actually it's an A AAA snack because Aaron's just gonna be asking some questions to fill because we are not gonna fucking give up this opportunity to ask one of the original people. All of the questions that I've been burning to ask. So, Phil, we are deeply appreciative that you have time to join us today and I just want to take the opportunity to dig into some knowledge that only you hold. So what you're saying is that I can kick back? Yeah. Yeah, just cruise. Oh, thank God. All right. Let's kick it off of the softball. Then Phil, you're known by many names. Checker Phil as Phil from the checkerboard kids, the boy genius and most concisely Esquire. Let's break him down. Where do those monikers come from, man? Oh, man. All right. Esquire boy genius in full effect back in the days in the, in the rocky days, uh, when we were at Movieland, everybody had like sort of like a kind of a persona going on there. Uh Sal had this thing called the posse and like there would be all these different kind of characters and me, I was Phil Esquire, the boy genius. Now, Esquire, kind of as a, I remember the magazine Esquire or, but also kind of like a, a kind of a, a gentleman. I was a gentleman. That's, that was my, my jam there because, uh, I wasn't into all the main drama now, don't get me wrong. I was all up in the drama but I tried to avoid it a boy genius because I relatively, uh, I look back at the, the whole boy genius moniker and I wince every time I think about it because upon my years I realized yes, no longer a boy and definitely, definitely far from genius. But at the time you kind of wished yourself into being. So, I was sort of youthful there and also I was kind of mad. I, I, I had some smas there and then uh Checker Phil. Uh it's mostly because a, I love ska music. So there was that whole two tone sort of thing with the kind of thing. And also uh I have really black and white thinking where I'm either all or nothing. There's like any subject that we were going through this before when we were, we went out to eat, it's like whatever subject you give me. I could, I will either love it or hate it. So, so, all right, John, give me a topic, any topic, tell me and I'll tell you if I love it or hate it. Uh Pepto Biba. I love it. It's delicious, isn't it? I would get that stuff from the bottle. Even if I wasn't sick. Yeah, exactly. I wanna dump it into a bowl and then put Tums in it and eat it like a cereal. Oh, dude, that's disgusting. You're disgusting. I mean, I'll do it too. I have stomach problems too. So, like, sign me up for some of that pepto cereal. So, yeah, that's, that's what the whole checkerboard thing is, sort of thing. That's my shtick. Awesome. All right. So, as you know, and our listeners can attest we reference fan club materials from yesteryear a lot. Our most frequently sourced books are definitely Sal's Creatures of the Night. Both one and two, however, bone to pick. Not a bone to pick. Just gotta say Sal's fantastic books only cover the fan club in the New York Rocky War scene up until when he wrote them the mid nineties around 1995. And I personally didn't come to New York until about a decade later, around 2005, 2006. So one of the most frequent questions that new members of the community ask us and ask me in particular is about what Rocky was like back in the good old days. And I have to tell them that they're asking the wrong guy, but today we've got the right guy. So Phil as someone who was there at the Eighth Street Playhouse, just how fucking crazy was Rocky horror in the eighties and in particular at the theater that just defined the whole cult phenomenon. Oh, dude. Well, I'll, I'll, I'll say this. Um If you were to be in any situation where there was any old timers at Rocky, believe me, they would be eliciting this at any given time. You know, back in the days, Rocky was just a lot of whatever sanitized version that you guys have over here with your not drinking rules and your, you can't get high and that the, and no nudity and no nip lips. Oh, dear, they're back in their days, this wouldn't happen. But honestly, um, back in the days as a, as a person that was literally a kid, uh, hanging out in the eighth Street playhouse. Yeah, there was a lot of people smoking weed and, uh, you know, what do you call it? And a lot of random nudity and just generally wild partying stuff. It was a mad house and it all goes back to even the, the permissiveness of the person who was running the playhouse, which was Steve Hirsch, you know, and he was, you know, he was a wild partying kind of guy. And, uh, he took that all the way to his passing and then, uh after he passed, then there was kind of like a pall over everything because everybody was, you know, hey, we lost our home. But it's also like, you know, lots of people were dying back then and it was really sort of wild, messed up stuff from there. We ended up moving from there to the East Side Cinemas which is like 55th Street. We were just looking at the remnants of that spot. Now that was, it was wild. It was fun, fun. We had a good management that really liked us and then we ended up moving down to um Movieland Eighth Street and on Movieland Eighth Street. That was pretty cool. Uh The management there, the one guy, we had this one guy, Rob who really liked us, but he was like, really super involved in our cast. Like uh but we also had people that hated us. There was our security people. They used to like rip out our microphones and tear them apart because they hated us so much. But also good things happened. Um I remember little Nell coming to visit us there. There's a picture of that in Creatures of the night when she came to the theater to hang out. And uh also weird al was performing over at N Y U and then walked on, over with his group to come to see the movie. And then afterwards everybody, we all went to this place called Polyesters, which was a eighties bar with all these kind of eighties themed stuff and he hung out and just took pictures with everybody. I mean, it was just like some awesome fun stuff. And then from there, the theater got sold to N Y un Y U ended up getting the theater and Buddha us out and uh we were lacri us, we did not know what we were gonna do. And so I was able to uh get us the 12th Street Theater. We were able to be there at the east Side cinemas for a bit. So we were over there and I see that you guys are out there now, like, yeah, you know, going back to the old spot and, uh, that place used to be, um, it used to be a synagogue. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. If you look at the exterior of it you could see that the place used to be a synagogue, like it still has like the, the Hebrew writing on the sides and stuff like that. It, it, yeah, I had no idea. Yeah. Yeah. So then from there we moved to 23rd street, like, from there. Ok. So what eventually became the bow tie and then the, what's the, yeah, the bow tie syna and, yeah, all that. But there was a lot of changing of hands, uh, within the cast like this, the cast had many different o of personality in charge and back and forth and like anybody knows, any rocky people know the drama that's involved and cast, coordinating and things like that. But, uh, ultimately things started evening out to its normal version of itself. Now, rules had to be put in place to keep people safe because I tell you the anarchy that was going on, like I said, now people would be effing in jail for their, just stay in. So, I don't know. I, I, I would like to talk about this a little bit more. But I don't want to incriminate myself or other people. I know that there's actually a, a person that's right now. He's writing a book. He's interviewed a whole bunch of Eighth Street people. And, uh it's kind of like, uh I remember there was a book back in the days about, I think about Florida. Rocky. It was called Sex Drugs and Rocky Horror. Was that the Florida for class or one of these other casts? Yeah. And uh so there's a uh I, I see you reaching in your vast library there. Is it uh what? Confessions of Transylvania? What's that one? Uh Yeah. Confessions of a Transylvanian, a story of Drugs and Rocky Horror. Uh that's uh Kevin the and Fox. They were Florida cast. It's a little fictionalized but it's all the drama. Well, trust me on this, on this one. I, I the person that is working on this one, he's spoken to a lot of people from, from eighth street and stuff like that and they got some stuff. I don't think they're naming particular names but uh people at the time you could figure out who is, who just saying. So look for that, but I'll send them your way and they're gonna start plugging. Oh, absolutely. So let's take it back to the beginning of the story, the start of the fan club and stuff, John, you, you had something about this. So you were on the front line of the fan club for the height of its involvement in the rocky community in Creatures. Sal briefly mentions that all the different roles that you took on over the years. What was it like being at the center of the action? And what were some of the most unique Rocky projects that you personally were involved in? Wow. All right. Uh Working for the fan club. It was kind of like a twofold thing. The main goal of the fan club back in the day. This is so before computers, um what happens is we would get letters from all around the world and we'd have to send them people wanted memberships and we used to send them membership cards, a pin and a newsletter and uh answer any questions and you had to answer these questions by hand. There was no computer to be had here. And uh we got to talk to people from all these different casts, people that were having cash problems, people that were trying to get the movie in their theaters or anybody that was, had any drama with their theaters, you know, it's like we were talking to them all and we got to meet so many different people. Some of these people I still see on Facebook now. I see like Kim Garland, a very talented artist from the Atlanta cast. Um I got to like, man, there were so many different people that, that you would just talk to like the amount of mail that we had to send literally bags and bag big garbage bags full of mail. And you couldn't just like, show up at the post office and do it. We had to have runs, we'd have to show up at a post office and just stuff a mailbox real quick. And this is like, completely against the law on the low and, um, you know, just run up there or go into the post office and just like stuff a whole bunch in there and then leave before anybody catches you. You know, it was just that kind of shenanigans. And also there was convention stuff. It was just a lot of like meeting other people. One of my more favorite times there was a person from the Philadelphia cast man. This guy was like on point, knew all his stuff, knew all the people. He was constantly writing us and he said, I'm gonna be coming up to New York uh to meet you guys. I'm looking forward to meeting you and then it comes and it's this little tiny kid and he opens his mouth and he sounds like an adult if anybody ever knew, uh Jake Fogel Nest. Uh He was a squirt from squirt TV on MTV and things like this. He's still, he's still doing stuff now, produced a whole bunch of things and yeah, that was that kid and, and even now I still see him on his, uh, his Jake Army and things like this. He's a DJ for a while and, uh, you see on his Instagram, he's still collecting rocky memorabilia and things like that. He, he was just, he just copped a, a copy of that, uh, the Rocky audio, like the rocky audio recording the album. Pretty rare. Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. So cool. I could, I could ask you about the fan club for hours. I wanted to talk about this. Your artwork is just some of the most recognizable pieces that have adorned just all manner of Rocky and non Rocky periodicals and memorabilia over the years. Like, how did you get started doing Rocky Art? I knew you, you were an artist, you know, when you first found Rocky, you know, when you were young. But like, what got you to, like, I want to draw Rocky stuff and what piece really sticks out in your mind even today? Oh, well, basically they went to music and art high school much like, hey, Dorie Hartley also went to, to music and art high school too and, and there was a lot, a lot of Rocky people that, that went there. And like when you draw, I, I was more like a comic book kind of person and you draw what, you know, so I was always drawing cartoons about Rocky or doing cartoons about Eddie or, or just things, things like that. And I, I remember doing for, uh, maybe it was for unconventional convention list or one of these other, uh, Rocky magazines. I remember doing the A P thing and that went in there. But I did this one cartoon. I'm trying to remember what magazine it was for. It was the archetypes of different Rocky people that you'll meet at the show. And it had, like, everybody broken down, like, much, like, uh, I think it was, uh, what's, what's the psychologist that has all, all the archetypes of personalities? Like, you will find the same people. Like, I've been to different rockies all around. I've been around the world and I, yeah, yeah, I've seen a whole bunch of different casts. You'll notice the same kind of people show up. There's like all these participation monsters. There's people that are only, like, they're only into the tech, that's their thing, they're the technology things. Um, and there's like all these things, I wish I could find that cartoon because like, if you find, find that cartoon and put that in the show notes, I wanna see that one. I haven't seen that thing in so long. It was one of my favorite cartoons I ever drew. Another thing is doing is doing Rocky horror drawing. It's like you think, like you take what you like and then you mix it with that. Like, oh, here's a quick plug. I love ska music. I do a television show called Checkerboard Kids and, uh, in general, uh, Scott stuff, there was a comic book called Root Tales. It had three issues and, uh, I do stuff for the second issue and then the third issue, I did a thing called the Rocky Sk Rock Picture Show. So all you people that really love rare stuff about Rocky, I mean, all right, I'm taking Aaron right out of it because I gave him a copy of it. I only have three copies of it. But, uh, it is, it is, I put together like a kind of like Rocky horror parody. But with Scott, because I thought, oh yeah, Rocky and Scott music and there should be a thing. And then they, people approached me, this guy named Badger. I think it's Ryan Basil, a couple of other people, uh Bob Tim, another uh sky drummer and they were looking for a compilation of different bands that are doing versions of Rocky horror picture. So uh songs I knew this young and upcoming ska band called Sk of the Hut and we got together and did sort of dam and I get to be the narrator in it. So, I mean, like, you know, Rocky Harra, you're doing fine well, because of the Hut and then in the middle, like, um we got a great producer. Uh it was Jerica from the Scofflaws uh produced it. The record was getting made and then the scab of the Hut got hit with a, a lawsuit, a cease and desist from Lucas film, I guess because he could, you know, me and they had to, they changed their name to the Conquistadors or el Conquistadors I remember was, was the name of the lead and a couple of the other people there, other people in the band, he ended up becoming really famous. That one was in C I Miami became like the lead character of that and a couple of other people and uh kind of like there's a little, yeah, look at that one and Yeah. Yeah, I show notes for that. The main thing is that, so that song got made and the album ended up coming out and then immediately got pulled out like it was out for a while and then gone. So uh on the low, I still have a copy of that song. So I am passing it under the table very carefully to you. Er and somehow this audio will get leaked out to the masses where people can listen to it at their own convenience and feel free to spread it around to whoever because what are they gonna do? Sue us? Uh Please don't report it will definitely not be anonymously uploaded to somewhere that you can uh possibly find in our show notes. If someone who knows who might accidentally put a link to it in there certainly wouldn't have been me. That's fucking amazing. Phil. I like, I didn't even know this thing existed. I was so excited about it. You handed me this copy of this comic book earlier and just, I, I've never seen a copy of this thing. I've, I've known that it existed. Like I'd seen a cover because I think Ruth had archived as like just a thing that existed. I, yeah, like one of her, you know, a million Rocky related things, but I had no hope of ever finding it or seeing it or let alone having a copy of it. So, oh my God, I'm so excited to have this and I can't wait to sit down and flip through it and just enjoy all of the great stuff. Actually, I love your, your uh your comic rack over here in the house where I see that you have the, the Rocky comics and stuff like that and another other good uh comic to have, you wanna have the Shanda the Panda Rocky Rocky uh crossover. That's another cute one that I, I have. What, what is this? I've never heard of this Shanda the Panda. Uh I think that this, this person, uh I think they really dug some Rocky and then they did like a whole Rocky horror cover related thing and the, the storyline is about them going to Rocky. Um OK. Well, we're just gonna hold this episode until I can go on ebay and uh then we'll go ahead and release it after I snatched up all the copies. Oh, that's so cool. Amazing. Hey, Nerdy, Nerdy Rocky comic stuff. It's, it's all good. We're writing Nerdy right now. So Sal mentions in creatures that he retired as New York's cast director in 1992 because he was frustrated with the management at the Movieland Eighth Street Triplex. And this, of course, not the famed Eighth Street Playhouse, but the second theater that the cast moved to after the original Eighth Street had closed. So Sal retired and I know the New York cast changed directors in theaters a few times. Can you give our listeners some insight into the saga? That is the New York Rocky during the nineties and into the early two thousands. Yeah. Like what was it like to step into Sal's shoes and take on literally the most well known Rocky cast in the country? If not the world, man, I'll tell you, you want to know the real truth is it's probably the same for any cast person that has a big name person that, that's hold down that cast for so long. And then all of a sudden you find your thing is there is immediately a coup. So what happens is other people's like, I'm more popular than him because what happens is Sal pulled me over and said, dude, I'm stepping down, you're the person that you're gonna do this thing. And I'm like me, I'm just the person that plays the music and does the thing. I, I ain't that person like there's always the way that I feel that Rocky always goes, there's the face and then there's the man in the chair that does the thing. So I'm usually the person that does the thing and I wasn't meant to be the face, but there were other people that were just like I'm in there, I'm doing it. I'm popular. We all voted and you're out and I'm in and I'm just like, OK, go ahead, dude. Do your thing. Do you boo. So, and they were doing it and then slowly but surely you, it isn't like you can just step in and suddenly start like putting all your friends in to perform whenever they want and then you'll start noticing other people are getting dissatisfied. There's certain situations people are quitting, people are fighting, things are going on and then you're realizing that being a cast coordinator and being involved with the show and doing the things is more than just being like, hey, everybody, here's some virgins. No, dude, it's like maintaining special liaison between all your performers to make sure there's a subtle nuance to be able to, to navigate all the different politics that's going on there. You have like a whole bunch of different people. You have performers and friends and lovers and technical people and newbies that want to get involved and you want to keep them safe from really lecturers, people that are up to shenanigans and like all these different things going on there all simultaneously and be able to hold all these things down. That is a world of responsibility to go on because if not ask any cast coordinator, things could decimate in a second person, could do a wrong thing or say a wrong thing. And next thing, you know, casts are rendered in half. I remember going to some places and like certain people only performed on Fridays and certain people only performed on Saturdays. And you can't do these things, you can't do these things. There's all these different rules and it's just like, no. And then eventually what happens is they were just like, dude, can you like, take over this thing? And I'm like, dude, I've been doing all the things I'm doing all the things. So I'm doing it. So you basically get to still go do your thing, like you think you're the thing, but you know, we're doing the thing and I, even though I might be just saying, doing the thing, you all know what I'm really saying. I'm looking, I'm looking across at Meg and I'm get, I'm getting that nod and it's the knowledgeable nod of anybody who's cast coordinated or anybody who's ever hosted. You know what I'm talking about? It's being able to just work within because it's, it's all politics. It's all hands shaken and being able to all get along. So you're dealing with a whole bunch of people, a lot of them are think very highly of themselves. Some might even call them narcissistic. Oh, also, I must admit myself also narcissistic but also in certain ways or as they were referencing the art of war, you know, be smart. But don't let the other people think that you're too smart because then they're gonna try to kill you. And also very important you delegate responsibility to people that you trust and also don't make it all about yourself because a lot of people that try to create that cult of personality things fall. I mean, Saul was a different thing. Saul was an anomaly. Saul was, he was at the right place at the right time and he created something so beautiful and so pure. He said, Rocky Horror is the movie of the seventies, eighties, nineties and beyond. And here we are at 2022 it's still going on and trust me when I say that as long as there are people that have pure hearts and well, whatever your real intentions are, um at least they want the show to do well. And if you're not doing it for ego tripping, some people, then I must admit it's an ego tripping thing. I get it. But if you are thinking and putting your cast first and doing the good thing and putting everybody together so that everybody gets a chance to perform so that other people that aren't so good, get a chance to get better so they could become better performers and people get together and work together so costumes can get better together. Um Makeup could get better together. Lighting could get better together. Everybody gets to work together. People that are old timers and new timers together, you will have an amazing cast that is unstoppable and unbeatable. Anybody knows that you've seen good casts. You know, and, and with the advent of technology, so beautiful, keep doing this. It is incumbent upon all of us to keep a Rocky. Oh, look at me, I'm like, hold on, let me get off this soapbox over here talking about how beautiful Rocky can be. And Rocky is some of the best people I see performing. I, I feel weepy. I see, I feel weepy when I see you guys performing and doing that thing when we did that show. Where was that? Where was that show at? The caveat show? Yeah, the caveat show that was so breaking new ground, you know, keeping these things going like and evolving it. That is the future of Rocky. The future of Rocky is happening. Even as we speak, I've seen these things. I've been around for a hot minute one day I will be dead and people would be listening back to this and saying, you know that Bill, he had some good ideas over there. In any case, if I could implore anybody, stay true to this, use your yourself skills to this because we are raising the future, the future directors, the future costume designers, the future actors, the future actresses, future comedians, the future everybody. Uh we were talking before Ryan that does, does hair and stuff like that for Broadway. Yo, that dude just came in, we just wanted to do some stuff doing that rocky stuff, showing those rocky skills and now doing it on Broadway. There's other people, uh you know, I have other friends out there, the fan club pals that are out there on Broadway, working on Broadway, doing their thing. People come to New York, big city of dreams, but also whatever city you're in, wherever you're listening to this, ah look at me and poetic back in my time, I should have like AAA little uh uh one of those sweaters and a corn cob pipe or something. Oh So you, you just said all the words, I it, it makes me so happy to hear that what you value with Rocky, what you value back in the day. It's the same things that we value today and just that journey, you know that everybody takes in the community. It's just, it's, it's what we're all here for. Understandable. But trust me in the back of the day, I was just trying to get laid. No, seriously, there was other situations where women would just pull me aside and say, hey, come here and I'd be like, OK, thank you Rocky Horror and they would pull me aside and like make out with me and like, seriously, I remember I was just like, holy cow. Thank you Rocky Horror. And I remember being in another situation where this person was fighting with two of their boyfriends, there were two boyfriends showed up and they were both fighting. And then this young lady pulled me side and started making out with me because she was so turned on by her two stories. Fight over each other. These are real Rocky horror stories folks. And if you've seen me, I was a fat kid with glasses, see some body positivity stuff. This is really helping my self esteem. It really was just stay. Oh So as someone with a front row seat to the entire cult following, what are the biggest ways that you think Rocky has changed? What trends have come and gone? And what do you think about the State of the Union for Rocky today? What would you like to see for the 50th? Uh the 50th, what I would like to see in the 50th? I mean, come on three years away, we're almost there. I think the thing that I would like to see more is more people coming together right now. Uh uh I would like to see more diversity among casts but not just like racially, you know, sexually also people uh ability wise too. I remember, man, I remember in Florida, I was going to see the Orlando cast and there was a gal that did Magenta and yo, she had a wheelchair and she was in a rock and a, she was smoking hot and b yo, she not only did she have a wheelchair, she also had a freaking van. How did that? She had like a mini truck or something like that and was able to drive around, have a wheelchair. That was some crazy stuff there. But yo talk about like very able, very capable, very holding it down. I want to see more of that. I want to see Rocky people. I want to see everybody, whatever there. You know, I just want to see people, everybody coming together and doing it. This sounded like that sounded really wrong but also sounded right. No, I, I disagree. I think that sounded very right. I would love to see all these people come together doing it. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I, I think that that's the way to go. I mean, like everybody from every country, every, the only way that Rocky is gonna be able to make it to the next generation is by us all coming together and not holding anybody back. So that means all right, all you old codgers like me, don't be sticking up your nose at all these, at you young people. You shouldn't be doing these things and all you young people don't be like back all these old cons over there. Look at them. The main point is let's all get together on this. Let's all learn from each other. Let's all be peaceful and let's all keep doing this. I don't care what country you're in. Just everybody get along and let's do this thing because we're bringing it all to the next generation. We're all learning to be better performers. We're all learning to take technology wise seriously. The stuff that I saw like you did, uh the stuff that we see, like being able to do it zoom things, people from all different countries getting together and doing it. This is what Rocky is all about. This is beyond any scope that anybody could have hoped for this thing. You know, people thought that Rocky wouldn't have been a thing. But now it's, it's everywhere. It's, it will always be, it will be a Touchstone for diversity. It'll be Touchstone for different sexualities. It'll be a Touchstone for everything. One day. It is the thing that certain governmental people would like to stop. And that's when you know, you're on the right side of history. People wanna stop you for existing. People wanna stop you from what kind of music you like? People wanna stop you for how you wanna dress. People wanna stop you from these things. Yo, we are moving towards the future. Why do you think we're doing the time warp? We're, we're warping time into the future. We keep sticking around. Part of us is still the same part of us is moving to the future. We're always doing this thing and all at the same time we're reaching out to everybody. I could go to Rocky in any country. Yeah, I wouldn't even be going out to Berlin. You better known to be looking at Max Mayhem and his people over there because wherever we go we could talk to any of the Rocky people on the Facebook thing and everybody knows a person that knows a person that knows a person. This is the community. We're like a bunch of secret agents except, uh, we're pretty much out there and, you know, where we're at and, you know, our theaters and, you know, our spots and you know how we act and you know what we like. Oh, it's so true. It's so true. I mean, it's, it's the thing, the trend, right? That's, I, I don't even want to call it a trend. It's the way that Rocky has evolved in the last five or 10 years or so. We're just, it's all about that. It's all about getting everybody on stage, including everybody, making sure that, you know, Rocky is a safe space for everyone and that everyone gets to enjoy this thing that honestly, it just meant so much to all of us. You know, even shy people like me, like, you know, people that were just like, I just want to fade into the background. Guess what? All the Texans people, all the people that are doing that stuff and doing all the lighting and stuff like that. They get the chance to have their bows too. And I tell you, they get their groupies too. So don't even play off like you, like, you know, hiding there in the background. We know what you're up to. I see you, uh, we could go on forever. Phil. And, uh, we're gonna keep this conversation going off the air but wrapping up and this one is totally not just for me and just not me fishing for topics or ask a question segment. But are there any like lesser known rocky topics or just events or anything that you think the community would find fascinating that we should probably be looking into? Oh, yeah. Your number one question that I will leave you with is when you're gonna have sal on the show? And are you compiling questions for that moment? God damn it. I knew you'd ask that. I, well, our people are talking to sales people and by that, I mean, I think you gave me his number. So he waiting. Oh, wait, that's a, that's a big fish to fry. I'm very excited for that one of one of these days soon we'll have to get on and, oh my God, that's gonna be an absolute treat. I'm so excited for it. I think that might be a two parter. Uh It might be a 10 part. Like, I don't know how I could just, I don't know, I can, I say one last thing to the, to the people now that I have the ear of all the Rocky people, you know anybody that listens to this show for real, all the people that, that, that love this thing. Yo definitely give it a like, subscribe, do all those things to it because this really deserves to thrive. This is the voice of Rocky for real. It's like sometimes when I'm just walking around, I just listen to this and I'm like, I'm enjoying it. I am loving it. So I'm like, if I'm just chuck over here, I'm enjoying it like any Rocky people, I'm sure wherever, wherever state you're in, whatever performing part you're in whatever thing you do, you must be getting something from this. And also the last thing I wanted to say is embrace the new blood, embrace all the new people because I was saying that Rocky Horror, we are definitely vampiric people and our future is it's really important that we get our stuff from the lifeblood of the newer members because this is where they come in. They feel attracted to this. So present the most attractive face of Rocky. Stopping with the drama kings and drama queens be embracing to us all, be um magnanimous, don't look down on people. Some people come in here and you think you are the only diva but be kind. In fact, I'll say uh if you know Diva Perry, Perry is his, his name might be the diva but he is very humble and he is very kind to everybody. So that's a good example of people that, you know, if you, no matter how much stuff you did and no matter how much Rocky things you did, no matter who you met, no matter who you're friends with. Yo, be cool to everybody because you don't know who's gonna be some rich, famous person in the future, you know, doing these things and producing these shows. You know, be cool because Rocky loves you and you know, they love you too. Hold it, you know what I mean? You love Rocky or Rocky loves you back and keep this for everybody. It doesn't matter if you uh like uh the Glee or Fox or any of those things everybody gets in where they fit in and then everybody will grow together. I might sound wacky. Uh Look at me, I'm like the old Codger now that grandpa shut up and sit down. Take your All right. All right. I'm gonna sit him down now. Oh no, you can keep, keep talking forever. Hit the nail right on the head there. I'm gonna hit the nail on the head over here in the corner and that's our show. We wanna thank Phil for being such a wonderful and smoking hot co-host this week and letting us pick his brain. My brain. As always, we'd like to thank our writer Jacob and our editor Aaron from Tennessee you guys are fantastic and the show wouldn't be nearly as good without you. And in fact, there wouldn't be a show at all. If anyone has a question, they'd like us to answer on air for Nicky asks a question or whoever you are, asks the question or some community news they'd like us to talk about or even a cool story to share with the community. We'd of course, love to include it in our show. Just go to our website that's Rocky talky podcast dot com and fill out our contact forum to tell us all about it. If you're enjoying Rocky Talkie, please help us out by rating, reviewing and subscribing to the show and make the podcast more accessible to the new listeners, which really, really, really helps grow the show. And if you want even more Rocky Talkie content, check us out on Facebook, youtube, Instagram and tiktok all at Rocky Talkie Podcast. We'll talk to you all next week. Bye. See you. 72. Bye. See you. And no, that isn't a combat term for incapacitation. What? So what Jacob scripts, you're the one who allowed him to do this? I know I'll allow it. Boy. Now I see what the really, the troubles you guys really got to go through with this stuff. It sounds so smooth when I watch it on TV, or when I listen to it on, it's a lot harder than it looks. It sure is horror on the High Seas recently announced its inaugural go Head Horror on the High Seas recently announced its inaugural inaugural Horror. How? Thank you. And that's our show. We would like to thank you. Absolutely nobody. Horror on the High Seas recently announced its inaugural inaugural inaugural stop adding a fucking syllable John Horr on the High Seas recently announce its inaugural cruise convention if you can make oh shit, I would love to make shit right now. Beetle juice looks very intense on this whole thing. I see beetle juice looking over like how can I possibly get up to that laptop so I could knock over that, that, that glass of juice. I, I, I just, I love you guys. I it's just like, oh, this is my dream to be here and just watch you guys do your thing. It's so ridiculous. We're ridiculous. No, but you have a good kind of ridiculous. I really appreciate you. Who gets to say bye because it's always in black everybody. Bye.