Hello to all of you. Unconventional conventions. Welcome back to Rocky Talkie. It's a Rocky Horror podcast. We talk about anything and everything. Rocky Horror over here. My name's John. I'm Aaron and I'm Meg meg meg. What are you doing here guys? Sorry, Nicky dipped out and uh and we needed a girl. Don't worry, I'm not gonna be around for long. We're gonna be filling this spot with lots of community members, but we all kind of thought it would be fun for me to hop on the episode for the first time in 65 episodes and just, you know, say hi and, and chat with you guys for a bit. I'm happy to be here and shoot the shit. Yeah. Shoot the shit. All right. Well, Aaron Meg, I saw y'all a little bit this weekend, but is there anything that we did? That was this week that has absolutely nothing to do with Rocky Horror whatsoever that we want to tell the homies about? Nope, we did. Me and Aaron went out last night with, um with Sav and a couple of other members of our cast and some alumni and some friends of ours and um we were gonna try to go out dancing the evening did not pan out the way that we intended. So we ended up uh coming back to our place with Sav and ordering diner food. And at one point, I want to say it around five o'clock in the morning, John actually shot me a text and was like, hey, do you know what happened to after the evening didn't work out? So I sent him a great video of all of us being fucking Diy in our apartment and we hung out here until like seven o'clock in the morning and then we went to bed and woke up in time to record this episode. Yeah, it was super fun. Love, love getting to hang out with Sav, haven't seen them in a while and that was super cool also this week uh my dad was in town uh briefly, he uh was uh installing a uh a model that he did uh for N Y U over at uh one of the uh the theater spaces that they have a uh kind of historical interpretation of a 18 hundreds theater uh in the Bronx and it uh looked super cool. He 3d printed the whole thing. So we got a chat with him, went out for lunch, you know, grabbed some hot pot over in uh Saint Mark's. That was super awesome. Loved that. And uh yeah, it was, it was mostly just a pretty low key week. Uh low key week for us about you, John, what were you up to? Your dad is so cool. Literally, the only thing that I did this week that was not Rocky or work was that I caught two shiny side ducks in Pokemon Legends Arch 22. No, not in just a week homie in a day. They showed up at the same time. The chances of that happening, like I should go play the lottery. Truly. The chances of too shiny showing up at the same exact time in Pokemon Legends Arch is very small, very small. I thought you were gonna bust out some statistics here. Uh I mean, I I could it's, it's, it's like a one in like 5000 chance or something like that. It was wild shit. My pants live on stream, love it. Follow my tiktok at high John M dad dot com. Uh Hi John dad dot com. Follow my tiktok at Hi John M Dad. You can see the reveal. Oh, that's awesome. Super fun, super fun. But with that, how about we get started with our first segment today? That would be global news. All right guys. A couple of episodes ago, we very briefly mentioned the sins of the flesh cast out of Los Angeles as part of an answer on one of our game shows. So back then, we were really bummed to say that we hadn't heard from them since one single New Year's post back in the start of 2021 there certainly wasn't any talk of performing, but we're back with great news. This past October, the cast was finally able to return to their stage just in time for the holiday season at their ancestral home, the new art theater and now not only is since performing the new art, the legendary Los Angeles theater is about to undergo a massive 10 week renovation. That's right. It's been almost 16 years since their last face lift. Back in 2006, the upcoming revamp will start just after their screening of the Oscar nominated short films which start February 20 fifth. So this extensive renovation includes an expanded lobby and designated bar area for guests, sign me up for that new luxury rockers on fresh flooring surrounded by updated plush wall coverings. Hm Design elements are said to include warm woods. I'll show you a warm wood marble and silver accents, echoing the nostalgia of classic cinema decor and lastly a future schedule of frequent talent and live performance is in store for the theater in addition to an expanded food menu, Kevin Holloway, president of landmark theaters who have operated the new art since 1974. Set up the renovation, the new art has a storied legacy servicing the Los Angeles film community for nearly 100 years and playing a key role in the inception of the landmark theaters. We intend to build upon that legacy and while we haven't heard anything from sin to themselves on this renovation or on whether or not they're going to be performing for these 10 weeks. We do know that they have one more February performance this Saturday, which is like in a few days. Yep. On February 26th, you can catch them at the new art shortly before it closes down for some intensive selfcare. And of course, we'll be keeping an eye on their Instagram to let you guys know about any updates they send out. So please all of our L A listeners show up for them this Saturday and show them some Rocky horror love and everyone else who is on sins. We wish you the best and we can't wait to hear all about what it's like at your new theater once the renovations are through. So for now, let's move on to something a little German. Did someone say a little no, May Gregor Geis is a rather regular sized German. He's also a member of German parliament and he's performing in the Rocky Horror Show. A new production of the Rocky Horror Show staged with help from Richard o'brien himself is set to perform across Europe in Germany, Austria and Switzerland and noted left wing German politician, Gregor Geese will be performing as the narrator from March 8th to the 10th. Politically. Gee is known for his legendary speech, duels with the former Buddhist president Norbert Lambert. The Buddhist being a German political body similar to our House of Representatives in terms, why was that written? Like this is like the German Hamilton, right? He's also known for being the head of the European Association of Socialist and Communist Parties since 2016. He also won a direct mandate in Berlin in 2021 which is a direct election where the candidate who receives most of the votes gets the mandate. So the Germans think he's a cool dude. So to give you guys some highlights of this guy's political history. His history began in the East German Communist Party or the S E D of East Germany. In 1967 he became a big name figure in East German politics and political reform as a lawyer defending political dissidents before becoming head of the S E D briefly in December of 1989 and immediately began to reform the party since the fall of communism. He's been a prominent German politician in the P DS. That's the party of Democratic Socialism. And in the first post reunification election, he was elected to the Buddhist where he remained until 2000 amid a few scandals involving him, accused of being a former Stasi collaborator and accusations of embezzlement. He stepped away from politics in early 2000, but he's always been a prominent face in German politics and as we mentioned, is now head of the European Association of Socialist and Communist parties. Rocky horror will be performed in the admiral slot, a 1700 seat theater on Fredrich Schraub in the Meat District of Berlin Germany. It was opened in 1910 and it's one of the very few preserved variety venues of the pre World War Two era in the city. Well, nobody could tell me that Aaron wasn't German man. Good for you, buddy guys. He doesn't have any sort of acting career though. So this casting is very much a surprise, a surprise to the wider world. But for those of us out there who know the long history of narrators in the Rocky Horror show might not be quite as big of a surprise. I mean, the state show loves to do this, right? They, they pull in politicians and actors and just any kind of celebrity to fill the role of the narrator. It's kind of um become the shtick, right? That happens where it's like you, you go to the show and who's going to be the narrator this time? I mean, famously, uh during the 2000 revival, uh you had Dick Cavett taking on the role, they rotated a lot there. Uh Penn and Teller did uh the narrator for a bit. I would have loved to have seen that. I fucking love those guys didn't Baby Spice do it at one point too. I'm pretty sure Baby Spice was a narrator at one point. That's it. God, I love that. Right. Well, it sounds like gee is about to become the next in a very long line of very entertaining narrators with limited performance experience. I don't know about limited. He is a politician and we wish him and the entire touring cast all the best for their upcoming performances. Last up in global news, we have some positive numbers to share about Meatloaf's music. That's right. A bunch of Mr Meat songs including I do Anything For Love, but I won't do that bad out of hell. You took the words right out of my mouth. Paradise by the dashboard light and I'd lie for you. And that's the truth have all soared in the charts. There has been a record 146% uplift in renditions of the smash hit. I do Anything For Love, but I won't do that compared to the 2021 figures as well as track plays of the iconic love song which topped the charts in 28 countries. They've also seen a dramatic 268% increase. Meat has even been honored by the musicians of the Queen's guard who played a brass version of the track in the rounds of Buckingham Palace. Now don't be too upset while a lot of us thought that Meat's death would be a welcome respite from the rockers music. I'm sure this spike in his popularity will be brief and soon his meaty musical Mashing will fall back into the shadows. Yeah, we can only hope much like the rising cost of butter in the face of Paula. Dean's departure from this world. Soon. Meat's popularity will subside and all will be right with the posthumous rocker scene. Uh Sweetie Paula Dean is alive. I don't think so. When's the last time you heard anything about Paula Dean? I mean, it's been a while but like she's alive, even if she wasn't, there was never a surge in the price of butter even. She's not dead. Um, hm, I, I just want to point out here who buys the groceries? What I'm just saying, if one person in this relationship is on the pulse of the price of butter in this country, like, is it you or me? I mean, that's a little ridiculous. I mean, like, right, so how much would butter be right now? Like, if you went to the store right now, how much would a butter cost? I, it, it's, it's like a, a carton of eggs, like, around that price, but a little different, you know, price wise. What should be, how much? I mean, we all know how much a carton of eggs are, right? Do I, do? I need to prove that. I know how much an eggs cost. Aaron, just give us an upper limit for how much you would pay for eggs just like an upper barrier, you know, on your price point for an eggs. Um, 33. What? Uh, I, I, I mean, honestly, Bitcoin has been all over the place. So properly estimating wouldn't be, I mean, but I guess if, if I had to price it, I would say an egg carton which has 12, 12 eggs uh would be, you know, I mean, you know, but I mean, per egg Aaron, are you having a stroke? As I was saying, uh we wish Meats music the best. Hold on to it while it lasts because ladies and gents just like the great blimp price spike after the crash of the Hindenburg. This upshot in popularity is sure to be brief. Ok? Now that one is definitely wrong. Oh Yeah. Big man. You shop for a lot of fucking blimps. Do you? Fine. Let's move on, please. Yeah, there's only like 20 blimps in existence. Now. Isn't that wild y'all? That's very wild. That's honestly more than I would expect. Really? I feel like you see them at stadiums and shit. It's something like that. How many blimps are there? Yes. As of 2021 there are approximately 25 blimps in existence. Half of which are actively used for advertising purposes only. I used to see them all the time when I was growing up, they would fly over my house and now there's only 25 left of them. They're going extinct. Holy shit. We have to do something about this to people now, I don't think so. All right. Well, first up in community news, we have a podcast This is no longer a Rocky horror podcast. This is a podcast about preserving blimps activism. So blimps original. Yeah. First up in community news, we've got a fun shopping tip for every single one of our listeners. Just the tip. Snag Heights is a cozy and Stockings company based in Scotland. The number one goal of their brand is size inclusivity and the belief that everyone should be able to wear clothes that fit. When the company began, their research showed that 90% of people who wear tights couldn't find sizes that actually fit well. So when they began their brand, they committed to making all of their products in sizes ranging from at least a four to at least a 30 six. All of their marketing uses real life images of their customers wearing their products and includes photos of people of all ages, genders, ethnicities, body types and styles. They also believe in affordability of clothing and they keep a fixed margin of profits from their sales, which means when they're able to save money on manufacturing costs, their customers are able to save money too. Plus as a brand, they're totally committed to paying all of their employees a living wage and refuse to work with businesses who don't do the same. They're also very open about trying to use freelance workers from their community and customer base whenever possible because they as a small business feel that supporting other independent contractors is important. Just recently snack has dropped a new collection of leg wear called Don't Dream It Be it. This collection is based on, you guessed it, the Rocky horror picture show and is full of super sexy Hosie that would fit in perfectly as part of any rocky costume, including some that would actually be pretty relevant to our community. They've got a set of stockings called the Columbia in the color Praline, which looks like they'd be perfect for Magenta's funny enough. The Colombia there are sheer black stockings with a back seam and an opaque top. They're exactly the sort of stockings you look for as a Magenta. And like we said, these come in sizes ranging from a two to a 34 and a pair only costs 12 bucks. They've also started offering a three prong garter belt called the Betty, which is available in the same size range for 36 bucks. And while it isn't perfect for floor show, it's pretty damn close. And anyone who isn't straight size in our community knows what a massive pain in the acid is to find floor show stuff and plus sizes. We totally recommend that you check them out if you're in the market. This is only a small portion of the don't dream it be it. Collection snag has come out with a pretty huge array of really sexy, garter belts, stockings, and tights so that everyone can feel stupid hot no matter what body you're in to top it all off. Snag even added this cute little blurb for, you know, us the community it reads, it's not just our range of sexy tights and stockings that's been inspired by the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Our whole business at Snag has been and continues to be inspired by this incredible groundbreaking gender bending legendary show for 50 years. Now, Rocky Horror Picture Show has been a welcoming light of inclusion and acceptance shining out into the darkness from a mysterious house in the distance. If you're already a fan, you know exactly what we mean. If you haven't experienced the Rocky Horror Picture Show yet, we're so jealous because the best 90 minutes of your life are still to come. A thanks, Snag. We feel seen right now. Some of these products are only limited edition, so make sure to pick them up while they're still around. Although who knows? Maybe if they do well enough, they'll become brand staples. It's certainly happened with this brand before. If you're interested in checking out Snag's new Rocky horror line, check out Snag Tights dot com and hit up their S and M collection. We've also got it linked for you in our show notes. I know I'm gonna have to go put in an order for these, these look fucking awesome. They look really good. Right. Yeah. For our next community news segment, we're gonna be straying away from Rocky for a hot sex with a heartwarming little story for all of our head head listeners. Nice. Back in early March of 2020 a theater company called Arizona Onstage Productions was right in the middle of a stage show run of one of our faves Hedwig and the Angry Inch Arizona Onstage was founded in 2003 by Kevin Johnson. It's a musical theater company staffed by members of the Tucson community, including lots of University of Arizona students. The group has received 17 awards from the Arizona Daily Star Mac Awards including best musical. The show was slated to run from March 13th through the 28th. And of course, we all know what happened there after only two performances, the theater shuts its doors and had to tell patrons that it would be rescheduling the show for some time in May, which obviously didn't happen either. The company however, kept going through the pandemic in the fall of 2020. They filmed and launched a digital opera called Alice in the pandemic for a Boston run virtual performance company called White Snake Productions. After that show, they went dark for a while. I mean, fair as a lot of our community knows, producing hateful virtual takes a fuck ton of bandwidth. Well, just a few days ago, the company resurfaced on social media with an announcement that they're going to be reviving their production of Hedwig and The Angry Inch from March 18th through March 27th at the Temple of Music. And art cabaret space in Tucson, Arizona. In a recent interview with Broadway World, Kevin spoke about how today's audiences are much more interested in checking out theater pieces they'd never heard of than in, you know, past years. He said, commenting, these new musicals were coming up very few and far between. People say I've never heard of it. Why would I go see it? Wicked. Just got through its fourth time through Tucson and literally every seat is sold out. But then a show like Hay Town, we were one of the first cities to get the tour. And I hear why should I see it? I've never heard of it despite the fact that it's won all of these Tony Awards and is fucking incredible. It's so good. Now, however, Kevin has noticed a trend in audiences being much more open to new kinds of theater and he encourages performers to keep things moving in that direction, stating we need to take risk if we are to remain a relevant artistic community of the 21st century, it's not about spurning classic material, but when caught between a new challenge and a rehash of David motifs, the choice should be a no-brainer. Kevin also told Broadway World that he'd really like to take his company's production of Hedwig on tour sometime in the future. But for now, he's just excited to be returning to the stage and finishing out the run that barely got started two years ago. After the run ends in March, the company's next project will be the Tony Award winning Musical Fun Home by Lisa Kron. If you live in Arizona and are interested in checking out this production of Hedwig, you can learn more on Arizona on stage dot com. The run will be taking place from March 18th through the 27th and tickets run between 20 to $25. We've got all that linked for you in our show notes. And if you'd like to check out Kevin's interview with Broadway World, we've got that link there too. So the three of us here all experience the same audiences. But I want to throw back to what Kevin was talking about in his interview for a second. I'm curious as to whether both of you have noticed a shift in sort of audience behavior at our show now versus pre pandemic. I think that there is a dramatic shift in audience behavior, but I can't quite tell what is causing it. And I think that it's kind of linked with a lot of the changes that we've had to do in the past 23 years. Like I think it's a combination of people being able to exist in a extremely queer and welcoming space now because they weren't able to do it for the past two plus years. But also I think that because of the new venue that we are working in as opposed to what we were doing in Sa Napoli, I just feel like the, the, the close quarters small dingy vibe is just way more telling or it allows people to be more loud, more engaging and more chaotic than it does in a theater where everything is spaced out and everything is organized. I think it's a combination of both, but I do think at least 50% of the new reactions that we have been getting in our audiences are due to the fact that people are finally able to exist in a queer space and they haven't been able to do that for a while. Oh, absolutely. I think that those are, are some of the biggest contributing factors also just the fact that people are excited to be out again and excited to be out in a way that they never were before, you know, everything went to shit, right? Like we'd have shows before the pandemic where it was just kind of a staple, right? And everyone knew, ok, you can go to Rocky Horror on a Friday or a Saturday night and like, yes, you'll get the Rocky experience and all of that. But now there's like a big revigor energy that's like this is something new and unique and like, you know, they're really excited to be there and they're especially excited to get to interact with people, to get to interact with the cast to like, see people running around and screaming things and just the, the energy is so much higher, even though the show is basically the same. Right. Yeah, I, I feel like there's almost an element of touch starvation there in a way if that makes sense. Like, I feel like part of that does have to do with the fact that we're in such closer proximity to our audience now than we've ever been. Like, our show specifically because we did used to be on sort of a much bigger stage and there was more space between us and the audience. And now in almost all of our venues where we've been performing, we've been very near them. There's been a lot of performance happening sort of in the aisles and on the seats, but they're there for it, man. They like the physical contact of it. I was doing Janet at a show this past Saturday and any of the times when I was on the seats crawling through for superheroes, any of that people were reaching out, trying to hold my hand, trying to touch me, trying to support me as like I, I went through the audience, which is great, which is great and I appreciate it, but it was something that I, I feel like I had never really experienced before in our larger spaces before the pandemic. I think it's almost a little bit of a taboo still, right? Because we haven't been able to have that sort of close physical contact with, with strangers for such a long time and I, and I, I think globally. Right. Like, it's just, people are really excited to make an event of it too. Right. I mean, we, we saw this in Pittsburgh when we were out there that just like everybody in the audience seemed like they were there, they were bought in, they were engaged whereas, you know, before it might have been that, oh, you just drug a few friends out for the evening and two of them were just kind of along for the ride. I don't really feel that with a lot of these audience members that we're seeing now, they are, they are all there and like active participants, you know. Yeah, I feel like when people go out specifically in New York City, but I feel like this is can be, I feel like this is applicable everywhere. But I feel like nowadays when you are going out for the most part, people missed going out and missed being a part of something people miss going to events, going to concerts, going to programs, going to events. And now we are in this era where like we're able to do that as long as we're being safe and appropriate. So people value it more. I think so when people are going out now people are going out for a purpose and not just like, I'm going to drag my friends with me 100%. And I think that that is really showing with Rocky, at least in New York, I would be really curious to see if there are any other people who are listening to this and they have kind of ideas. You should definitely write to us and see what your experience with your show has been post pandemic and see if we can kind of find common ground with that because it might be different somewhere else. Yeah, I think it would be really, really interesting to compare notes and this might be a good question to ask people as they come on the show down the road as we start bringing people on. Totally. Well, speaking of going out for all of our listeners who are craving a rocky fix, but don't actually want to go outside on Friday, February the 25th, which is tomorrow for those of you who are listening on the day, our episode drops R H P S. Buffalo is gonna be hosting a virtual rebroadcast of last summer's drive in performance in Elmira, New York. This show will be extra fun as Francis Bacon shared their stage with the Northeast Touring cast, Sweet Translucent Dreams. So you'll be getting two casts for the price of one that price. Of course, being absolutely free. That's right folks. And if it's free, it's for me. And if it's for you too, please join us and our H P S Buffalo for the nine PM virtual show that's gonna be over on R H P S live dot com where we'll be throwing virtual toast, virtual cards, confetti and screaming virtual callbacks at each other from the warm, warm comfort of our own homes. And don't forget our P S Buffalo will be hosting their first ever shadow cast screening of Shock treatment on April 1st. Tickets are super limited. So if you're interested in attending, definitely make sure that you grab your soon. You can find ticketing information on all of their social media. They started doing uh little cast bios for that. Did you see for the performers who were gonna uh be featured in that show? They just put one up today? Oh, I'm gonna have to go check those out. That sounds pretty cool. I'm excited to see who it's gonna be. And speaking of sweet translucent dreams, like we said, they've got a touring cast that does the Lord's work by spreading Rocky horror throughout a bunch of the northeast, primarily Pennsylvania and upstate New York. Their cast recently released their 2022 tour schedule as it stands so far. They've got several shows scheduled at the Emmaus Theater in Emmaus, Pennsylvania, plus a bunch of drive in show dates scattered throughout Pennsylvania and northern New York throughout the summer and into the Halloween season. So if you live in the more rural part of P A and you find it tricky to get your Rocky fixed. STD has got you covered. We've got their social media linked. If you want to check them out? Ok, boys, I'm so excited to get to move the show right along with some very delicious and insightful Mac snacks. That's right. Meg asks the question and I'm meg. What the fuck are you doing, sweetie? No, seriously. Get your own stick. That's old and busted. We want new hotness. Hey, I'm fresh and delicious. Just like these Mac snacks. Stop it. Absolutely not. No Mac snacks. I don't care what you want to call it, but we aren't doing that. Yeah, I do anything for love but I won't do that. You fucking stop it too. OK? Listen, just because Nikki isn't here to ask all our burning aching, throbbing. Rocky horror questions. Doesn't mean we have to throw a baby out with the bath water. Did you just call Mickey a baby? Yes. Spank me daddy. I'm a naughty baby. Absolutely not. In fact, I'm gonna make that the topic of this week's Mac snack. I was kidding. Please don't spend 30 minutes talking about my baby fetish. What? Absolutely fucking not guys. OK. Good. Moving on actually. Yeah, that speaking of moving on, that's what we're gonna talk about today. We're gonna talk about all of the forward thinking. We're gonna take it to the next level. You know what happens after the curtain comes down. I'm I'm not following you easy dumb ass. We're talking about the stage show today but not the original stage show. Well, ok, the original stage show, the early, early, early days of the stage show, but not the first days of the stage show. Where are you going with this? Ok. So you know how the Rocky Horror show opened in June of 1973 at the theater upstairs? Yes. But it didn't stay there for long. Right. Right. It, it moved to the Chelsea Classic in August. It was only at the theater upstairs for like, June and July. It was just barely a month in the original space before they had to find a new home for the show. I love that you're putting out the idea that this is the kind of banter that you and I engage in. Fuck off. Right. So let's talk about that for a second. I think we can all relate, especially now to the idea of taking Rocky on the road all over the community. We're doing shows outside of our usual spaces. Some casts have lost their theaters and some are looking for new homes. Some are expanding and performing in additional venues during the pan flute. We've all been doing some nontraditional shows. Be it at a drive in or virtually or circumstances have changed here in New York. We've actually moved theaters entirely and we are on a totally different schedule. So previously before the pandemic, we used to perform at the Sin Napoli and Chelsea and we were there every Friday, Saturday at midnight. Now we are every other Saturday at 10 PM at the Village East Cinema in the Village East. They didn't know where that was. So our times change, our frequency has changed. We don't have props. We don't have our big lighting rig. We don't have a lot of it. It is a smaller but louder version of our show that we used to do in Sa Napoli Chelsea. Exactly. We're changing it up and so did the original stage show maybe not as drastically, but I'm sure there were still changes when they made the leap from one venue to another. Whenever you're in a new space. And this is true of shadow casting just as much as it is in traditional theater, you're gonna need to adapt the show for whatever circumstances come up. So, are there any fun tidbits about when Rocky moved from the theater upstairs to the Chelsea Classic? Let's just do that first venue change. The show moved again shortly after to yet another theater, if I'm remembering. Right. But that feels a little bit broad. Yeah, it was at the theater upstairs for June and July of 1973. Then it was at the Classic for August September and October. And then again, it moved to the King's Road Theater in November of 73. Ok, perfect. Let's go. The show was a huge success. It was London's hottest ticket, but it was never planned to live at the theater upstairs forever. And as you do, Michael white, the producer had to find a new venue. They ended up in the Chelsea Classic, a cinema slated for demolition, which suited the original design of the stage show almost perfectly. After all, that was literally Brian Thompson's design for the staging of the show, a theater under demolition, evoking the declining movie palaces that we talked about a few weeks ago. It was from all accounts a pretty great fit and on top of that, it bumped up the seating capacity considerably while the theater upstairs was a really cramped black box with room for like a little over 60 audience members. The classic, seated 270 that is a massive increase. And as you can imagine, there had to be some changes to accommodate that new space but not just in the new space. You also had a change in some of the performers, Julie Covington, who had originated the role of Janet had other obligations. She was set to perform in a version of Anthony and Cleopatra on the South Bank. And Rayner Burton, the original Rocky had to leave the show shortly after the transfer to perform at the Citizens Theater in Glasgow, a continuation of his serious acting career. And as you would expect, they had to find new actors. Belinda Sinclair auditioned for and became the new Janet after Rainer's departure, Andrew Bradford took over for Rocky for the remainder of the Chelsea Classic run midway through the run. Pat Quinn also had other obligations with BBC television and Angela Bruce, one of the understudies that the show had added to the roster during the transfer, took over the role of Magenta and made it her own continuing in the part after the show moved on from the Chelsea Classic. I mean, totally relatable. We've certainly seen a lot of people filter in and out of the last couple of years. I'm not sure if I would say we've seen more or less attrition than you would usually get in a Rocky cast over a few years. But it does come with its own challenges when it happens all at once, part of a rocky cast ecosystem is being able to have sort of people in different stages of their rocky careers if that makes sense. So it's always kind of rough when you have a whole bunch of people from, let's say, who have been around for 2 to 3 years, right? That specific phase leave at a certain time because those are the people who are kind of supposed to be training the newbies and showing them the ropes and who are still fresh and like with it enough to be relevant to onboarding members, like people who are just joining, but who have been around long enough to know what's up if that makes sense. That's just an example. So I feel like whenever you lose a lot of people, your cast ecosystem kind of disintegrates a little bit and it's up to leadership and people who have been around for a longer time to take a more active hands on role with new people as you bring them on because a whole portion of your cast who was supposed to be there to do it just no longer is and it's, it's more effort. Yeah, I'm sure everybody out there can relate in their professional life. Right. I mean, in the corporate world we talk a lot about institutional knowledge and just like when you have a huge swath of people going out the door, you're kind of left hanging with who's gonna train, who's gonna, you know, carry on all of that kind of learned stuff that you just build up over a few years and, and that's a lot of what, uh, what's being competed with right now, you know? But anyway, the actors surely weren't the only thing that changed during that transfer. Not at all. They expanded the schedule, uh, at the theater upstairs, they were constantly working around the performances at the larger downstairs main stage. The show was a late night feature out of necessity to ensure that Rocky Horror's booming rock and roll sound didn't compete with the main stage performance at the classic. There was no such limitation. Michael White originally wanted to run two shows a night and he wanted to run the show on Sunday evenings and give the cast Monday and Tuesdays off. He originally ran a bunch of press ads that basically said we're going to be doing Sundays. But the plan was quickly mixed when the Actors Union got wind contractually, they would have to pay everyone in the company double time for working Sunday. And that was just too much of a cost. So the show went on Monday through Thursday at nine PM and then two shows on Friday and Saturday at eight and 10, which fucking kill me. I can't do two shadow casts in a night fuck. Two full stage show performances. The set also got a slight face lift. I know this is when Brian Thompson added the famous Acme Demolition company branding to the drapes that hung all over the set, which was a reference to Warner Brothers looney tunes, you know, Road Runner and Wiley Coyote. Road Runner is a piece of shit. By the way, I think Wiley Coyote is trying to eat him like all the time. They also ramped up the use of the phantoms in the show. They had already established them at the original staging, but now they had hired some understudies and they could act as the mischief makers before the show which freed up the principal actors to, you know, get their makeup on, get into prep and not have to worry about also functioning as ushers. Though the Phantoms were never actually written into the official script. And though the set didn't undergo any significant changes, it certainly had to be expanded. The cramped and narrow catwalk that had extended into the aisles at the theater upstairs was made significantly wider. Rayner Burton compared the now three seat wide fixture to an airport runway compared to what had come before the movie screen that sat center stage was also made larger and most significantly, they added a curved ladder behind it which could be lit to evoke a rainbow effect which evoked the Wizard of Oz and most prominently used during superheroes. It was the most expensive new addition to the show, Brad and Janet now climbed up the sides at the show's conclusion, as the colored lights blinked on color by color, that's cool. The expanded space also allowed Riff's entrance during there's a light to become an eerie effect with the use of a black ladder and a light box. Riff's head appeared to float in space 15 ft in the air. A simple effect, but often the best effects can be relatively straightforward. Another big change if only for the convenience of the actors was that they now had an additional budget for microphones. Wow. Get this. During the initial run, the entire ensemble, all nine actors often shared a single microphone, they passed it around or threw it back and forth to each other where it was needed. And this is the seventies. So this is a microphone with a fucking cord on it that they're chucking across the theater. They expanded to three additional microphones and later on they got even more so that the logistics weren't quite so chaotic. That wasn't the only addition though, didn't they add a whole new song? Eddie's Teddy? That's why it wasn't on the original cast recording, right? Because it wasn't even in the show. Yeah. So at the time of the transfer, the show only ran 80 minutes and Dr Scott didn't have a character defining Richard o'brien quickly came up with Eddie's Teddy. In fact, Ziggy Byfield, who was hired to understudy, the show's male roles still has a copy of the script. And inside you can see his unfinished handwritten lyrics for the song. He'd never finished writing them out because as he recalls, he was literally in the middle of transcribing the song when somebody came into the rehearsal room waving typewriting copies for everybody. Be Feld's script also reveals some of the other minor changes that occurred during the transfer. There were evolutions in the dialogue and even character names were slightly updated. What had originally been. Frank Cap is crossed out and replaced with Ralph Haps just handwritten over the top of it as it was felt that Ralph sounded more like a stereotypical American class president type. And also to ensure that Frank Haps wasn't confused with Frank N Furter. And also this one's actually pretty funny. The new bound copies of the script featured a hilarious Typo on the cover page, a little back of House Oopsie Daisy resulted in the scripts being titled the Rocker Horror Show, which I don't even know how that happens. Somebody must have been a little hungover that day I feel seen but all said the run of the classic was short lived with the building scheduled for demolition. The show moved again in November of 1973 to the Kings Road Theater where it remained all the way through 1979 until moving to the Comedy Theater for the remainder of the year and into the final year of the original run in 1980. And with those transfers, the show was relatively complete. Sure there were changes, but those are a story for a different episode. The brief stay at the Chelsea Classic really was kind of the final work shopping of the show. Many of the original actors moved on after the Classic to the Roxy Theater in L A. They went to do the movie or just had other obligations and the second wave of performers took over by April of 1974. Not a single original cast member remained. Little Nell was the last remaining member of the original cast. She left a month after Jonathan Adams who had departed in March of that year. And actually this brings me to our discussion topic for today or what. Now listen, things move on and I want to do something a little different with this Mac snack. Stop trying to make Mac happen. It's not going to happen. Fuck you. I'm the producer, I can do what I want and what I want is to talk about how Rocky is evolving today. What's the future for Rocky as a shadow cast phenomenon? We've had a ton of changes here in New York. John touched on them briefly before and we talked about how audiences have changed earlier in the show. But just like the stage show is the future of Rocky always gonna be tied to movie theaters. This came from one of our cast members, Marty the other day when he said bar shows are better, he likes the audience more, the crowd is more interesting. The liquor helps lubricate them, blah, blah, blah. Is that the future of Rocky is or is being in a movie theater an integral part of the show? Do you guys think so? I have some very strong opinions on this one, obviously. Um I, I think that there is certainly a lot of room for Rocky out in the wider world, right, Rocky at a bar is absolutely super fun and a completely different experience from Rocky in a movie theater. Do I think that that is the path forward that Rocky will slowly, you know, shift out of movie theaters and into other performance spaces? Personally, I hope not. I think that the juxtaposition of Rocky in a movie theater is core and kind of fundamental to the entire experience. I think that Rocky is about subverting kind of your expectations and subverting what you're doing and you're already geared up to be like loud and rowdy in a bar. You're not supposed to do that in a classic movie theater setting. It's the same reason you weren't supposed to do that. A classic stage show setting. And I think that removing that element from it is kind of doing a disservice to the material. And I think that it really, while Rocky can be very successful in other spaces, I really would like to see it continue in a theater. You know, I think my major concern about the future of Rocky is whether or not within the next like few decades, that movie theaters are even gonna really fucking exist at this point because everything is moving online, everything is going virtual movie theater stock and movie theater attendance has gone down drastically in the past couple of decades. I do agree with Aaron though, ultimately, I think that if there was somebody who was going to a Rocky horror shadow cast for the first time, and they asked me, where should I go for it? I would tell them to go to the A MC, the local art house or wherever is near there that has a cast with it because I think that the pinnacle experience for Rocky is going to be in a movie theater. However, I feel like after that and after you kind of get past that initial, now, I know what to expect. I think at that point, something that is in a bar or something that is in a cabaret area or something of that sort or, you know, in a hotel like we have performed in, uh, I feel like something like that ends up being supplemental to the experience. I do think that the best way to experience Rocky for the first time is in a theater because of exactly the reasons that Aaron said. But I think that if you liked it and you enjoyed it, then I think at that point, it is prime opportunity for you to experience it in other areas. It's kind of similar with, like for me in any queer space. Like if somebody has never seen a live musical before, I would tell them to go to Broadway first. You know, I would tell you because that is where you can see it. That is where they deserve to be. Or if you're not in New York City and you have to go to your local national tour location. I would recommend you if you've never seen a live music before to go and see something like that. And then after you've got that experience, then maybe go to other regional theaters to be able to see it there or maybe go to a cabaret in the city that you are near, like, uh you know, a musical theater cabaret just to get that different experience. I think that doing Rocky in a place that is other than a movie theater is super valid. And I think that there are to what Marty said, you know, the audiences are different, the vibe is different. Uh But I do think that it is ultimately best to experience it at least for the first time in a movie theater. And my concern is that now that movie theater attendance and movie theater stock has been deteriorating in the past decade or so, I'm worried that Rocky as a phenomenon is going to have to move to other locations because movie theaters are becoming defunct. I definitely agree that movie theaters for Rocky are right. They're the classic. They're, oh, you see, Rocky Horror is a midnight movie and that's what it is. But I also think that it has been around for 50 years and I don't think that the movie theater thing is subverting anyone's expectations of Rocky Horror throwing back to that. I think that there's absolutely merit like John was saying, and having that be your first experience with it because that is what it's meant to be right the same way as any sort of musical is meant to be on a broadway stage or on a, you know, a local touring stage and not in some sort of cabaret venue. But I think as far as retaining audiences long term, now that movie theaters are kind of lessening in popularity with the pandemic and with streaming being available. And all of this, I think keeping Rocky as something that is confined to a movie theater is a little silly because it doesn't retain a long term audience members. I feel like there's only so many times people nowadays will be happy to sit through it in that sort of movie theater setting and watch the same thing. Every time I think that the merit to doing the show in a place like uh we have a hotel venue where we perform at sometimes called the Standard Hotel and we have no stage. There, there are cabaret tables strewn about this astro turf outside in this outdoor space. And all of our actors have to perform amongst the tables and it keeps them on their toes, it keeps the performance really, really lively. It keeps all of the actors in the moment and they have no choice but to interact with the audience members because what are you gonna do? Like you're performing next to somebody eating their burger at a cabaret table, you have to interact with it otherwise it's weird. Right? And I think that keeping that sort of freshness with the show does a lot for keeping the audience involved, keeping them there present with you and for making them want to engage with it more. Because if they know that the show that they just saw at that hotel while they were eating their burger is gonna be a different show than the one they're gonna see at the bar next week, which is gonna be a different show than the one they're gonna see in the Black Box in a month and a half. They're gonna wanna go to all of those venues and if they enjoy it, they're gonna want to experience it in all of those different ways. And I think that's just, it's more engaging than just having it at the one singular location and doing the same shtick over and over again. So I think that there is merit there. And I think with all of the forms of entertainment that are available to people nowadays, it's important to keep that variety. Yeah, I, I really like if anyone asks me, where should I go see Rocky Horror? Like I'm telling them to go to the theater like bar none. Uh because I can't guarantee them how that venue is going to treat the show. And if it is what the classic Rocky horror experience is, and I think that there is validity in the classic Rocky horror experience. But once you've seen it there, I think that even though being in a movie theater, the show is different every time just because you, you never know what's gonna happen. The level of improv in Rocky shows is absolutely asinine. But the different locations just they, they play to the chaos of Rocky so well and like look at R K O, you know, they have like their quote unquote their home theater or their home theaters that they go back to every so often. But like R K O performs in like coffee shops. Sometimes they perform at conventions that literally are just in like meeting rooms. Like I saw, I went to, to, I, I forget what it was. I think it was super super mega con or some dumb shit like that. I went to go see one of their shows there. It was a Hedwig and Rocky double feature and it was literally in a meeting room like a like a stadium, seated meeting room. And it was such a wild venue, but it, it, it had such a different vibe to the show. And it was really interesting and I would never ever ever tell somebody to use that as their first example of Rocky because of how different it was even for somebody who has seen it so many times. I think that theaters should be the base in the foundation and then the supplemental stuff that enriches the Rocky experience are the bars, the meeting spaces, the coffee shops, the hotels like that kind of stuff. And I, I think we actually kind of hit on an interesting point there that I kind of want to bring up that is very tangential to performing Rocky in other spaces. And this is kind of an issue that's come up in the community over the last couple of years. A lot more so than it has in the past and that's the death of screen accuracy, right? That is, and this is, this is something that you kind of see a generational divide in between the old guard of Rocky and kind of the the new young hotness, you know, where and especially in New York, we're experiencing this a lot where screen accuracy is much less important to the Rocky experience even in a movie theater. Right? Call me out without calling me out, right? Like I, I, I, I personally like love the classic Rocky horror screen accurate experience. I understand very much that that's not what the audience really expects these days. They expect kind of a crazy party, they expect this kind of improvisational shit show. Um And you know, I think that we've definitely in New York had to adapt to the audience's expectations and the change in venues certainly aids in that effort, right? Like when you walk into a space and you have no idea, let alone if you're gonna have a stage or where you're gonna be performing certain bits like it just naturally lends itself to the, you can't be screen accurate. You cannot always be on the correct side, you cannot always match which you know, the the blocking that's on the film. And whereas that was held up as such like an iconic pillar of the Rocky Horror experience through the late eighties and into the nineties and the early two thousands, right like that was what everybody kind of strove for was the perfectly screen match kind of thing. It did become a little bland, right? I mean, it, it very much became a situation where I would go see a show show in New York or I would go see a, a show in Boston or in Philadelphia and it was almost copy pasted right from each show because the blocking was always the same because everyone was striving for screen accuracy. You didn't really get a lot of leeway for performers to show off, right? For, for their talents, their improvisational skills and for just the audience interactions you kind of get now, I, I think that that is certainly a plus to all of these, you know, venue changes and to, you know, rocky not being in a movie theater, it puts everybody off their expectations and it really kind of shifts the vibe to, to being that more kind of cabaret, theatrical improvisational kind of experience. Yeah. And then it can get really, really feisty when you get like new people on cast who see everybody who's on stage who has been doing it for a few years, not necessarily lining up with what's happening on the stage because then they think like, oh, well, I can do that too and it's like, no, you can't do that. You have to know where to stand and what to do do and how you need to engage with that other character before you can allow something like that to happen for yourself. Like, even this past show, uh, I played Brad and number one first off, I hate playing Brad. So, like, I don't take him seriously at all, even though he's probably the character that I know the best. Yeah. Yeah, thanks. Uh, I was talking to me about it, like, despite the fact that I absolutely hate playing Brad, he's the one that is ingrained in my body the most so that my accuracy comes as like, not even a, I have to think about it because I know the character so well, very similar with Aaron, with Eddie, like Aaron played Eddie this weekend. And even though he can sit here and be like, oh, I wasn't that accurate. Like everything lined up. Like I watched everything lined up and he was able to find a happy medium between the two of them, have everything lined up, have everything be right, all the, all the correct hands, all the correct motions happening at the correct time. Uh But was also able to figure out what to do in that scenario to still make his character entertaining in that moment. And that is the, the, the difficult medium that we're gonna have to balance as we start to see shows in different venues because it's, it's a matter of this is the stage that we're working with. This is the stuff that we're working with. How are we going to find that medium between being accurate and being entertaining and it, it really becomes an onboarding challenge, right? Like you were talking about for those new people to not have that reliable, same show that they see every week and they go, ok, Janet goes here, then she walks up this aisle and then she walks back down and she stands on stage left and right. Like when you don't have that, it's a challenge for new people to tell them just come and watch the show and you'll learn what we're doing. Like you said, a lot of them just kind of don't make that leap and just go. So I just fuck around on stage, right? Um I actually, I want to chime in here a little bit. I don't know how much of this I should be saying on here, but I'm gonna say here because fuck it, it's my show. So I, I've been the, the director of the New York City cast for, I'm going to my sixth year right now and the, the couple who were directors before me uh were very, very old guard about all of this and very stringent about screen accuracy and trying to maintain like a really close semblance of what you saw on the screen and what happened on stage and performers were really, really competitive about it, right? People were competitive about trying to figure out how many times Janet blinked during car scene or, you know, like who had the most accurate, like closest costumes from everyone. That was sort of what I walked into when I inherited the cast. And that was sort of the, the mentality that had been passed down to me from the directors before me. And I would say about halfway through John came along really? And Sav came along, John's partner and I think really the two of you more than anyone kind of pushed to be able to start making roles more um more your own than screen accurate, which I was very hesitant about at first because it was something that was so ingrained in what I knew Rocky to be. Um But you guys started performing so much better, like the level of performances that I was seeing from the two of you and from all of the performers, once this sort of leeway started happening, and everyone was able to sort of make roles more of their own and to step away from having everything being perfectly accurate was insane. Like the level of energy, the level of entertainment with your own performance and with the show that everyone gave when we sort of made that shift was totally, totally worth the tradeoff for me. Um And as we've done more of it, people have become more invested in their performances and more engaging to watch and it's led to better audiences and better shows with just higher energy and that's all great but yeah, we do have this onboarding problem of people not having a base to look at, which is unfortunate and it sucks because we are seeing it in some of our newer performers now, who it, you can't improv if you don't have the base there. Right. Because you're not improving, you're just digging around on stage. And that sucks. Yeah, because you can only teach somebody new the blocking so much until you get to a venue that is completely different than what you have taught them. And then this is their first experience at a show and it throws them through a loop. Yeah. And I think it, it goes back to what we were talking about before with our whole ecosystem where it's helpful right now because we do have this whole group of cast members who were around in the before times and who have that base of knowledge and who were able to pull new performers around on stage if we're at that hotel venue with all the cabaret tables and those of us who were around before kind of know what it's supposed to look like. So it's easier to sort of riff on that. Those of us who weren't, don't know what they're supposed to be doing amongst the tables with people eating their dinner, the girls who get it, get it and the girls who don't, don't. Yeah. So, I, I mean, I don't have an answer for this yet. That's part of one of the challenges we've been working through as a cast, uh throughout all of this, going back to stage situation, you know, like we're trying to train people in our living rooms and it's, it's going, it's going and some of us are picking it up a little bit faster. Um, but I definitely think that it hurts to not have the ability for people to watch all the time every week in that same sort of space. So, I don't know, like I'd love to hear from other community members about how they're, they're dealing with stuff like this because I can't imagine we're the only ones. Yeah. Yeah. And, and having been around the community for, for so long, I mean, I certainly lament the, the, I don't want to say death, but I'm going to use the word death, the death of the, the, the old guard, you know, anal retentive screen accuracy, obsessiveness over, you know, the, the, the stitch counting, you know, kind of obsessiveness over costumes and over, over blocking and that kind of stuff. But I think that that's kind of an element of performance that we've seen evolve to be like John said something that is on the performer to kind of decide what level they want to take that to. Right. Like I personally pride myself on the obsessiveness in my costumes and knowing exactly how high Eddie raises his hand for this one little bit, you know, kind of thing, but that's not for everybody. And I think that taking it from something that is mandated on high, you know, from cast leadership, kind of, you know, perspective of, you have to be perfectly accurate to something where it is on the performer to decide how much they want to, you know, match the screen. I think that's great. I think that that's just plays into what Rocky is now where everybody gets to experience it in their own way. That said it's a catastrophe when you put 10 people on stage who have no experience doing things accurately and you just end up, you know, running around like chickens with your heads cut off, right? So, yeah, I think that's our show. We wanna thank our writer Jacob. We wanna thank our editor Aaron from Tennessee. We'd also like to thank the Francis Bacon Experiment and Sweet Translucent Dreams who are about to put on an amazing performance for us on Saturday the 25th. Don't forget to turn in to their virtual show at nine PM Eastern at R H P S live dot com. If anyone has a question, they'd like for us to answer on air for Meg, asks a question which it for a Mac snack uh or some community news they'd like us to talk about or a cool story to share with the community. We would love to include it all in our show. Just go to our website Rocky talky podcast dot com and fill out our contact form to share with us. And I mean, while you're at it, we'd also love to hear your thoughts on what we talked about today. If you've got any insights or any sort of tidbits, you'd like to share about your own experiences with all of this stuff that we talked about. Let us know. We, we'd love to hear it and we'd love to read it out loud. And if you're enjoying Rocky Talkie, please help us out by rating, reviewing and subscribing to the show. It makes the podcast more accessible to the new listeners, which really helps us grow the show. And if you want even more Rocky talkie content, check us out on Facebook, youtube, Instagram and tiktok, all at Rocky Talky Podcast. We'll talk to you all next week. Bye. So Rocky Horror will be performed in the ad. Oh, man, what? Admiral Eat it? Nicky, a 17 56 seat theater on Frederick Straub in the MT. Just Meat me. Yeah, it's my meat in the Meat District of Berlin. Ok. Just like the great blimp price strike after the crash of the Hindenburg. This upshot in popularity is sure to be briefed blimp Price Spike. What what you said you said strike? I mean it didn't strike the ground. There's 20 of them in existence now because ladies and gents just like the great blimp Price spike. Blimp Price. That's so hard. Yeah. Yeah. It is. Got him. I was kidding. Please don't spend 30 minutes talking about my babby fetish. I was kidding. Please don't spend 30 minutes talking about my baby fetish. Do you have thoughts about that, John? No. Ok. See you. 65. No, that's the sex number. You guys don't make a five shape when you're a dick. I, I do when I, when I'm sucking dick. Yeah. You got like a, let's see. I think this went well. Yeah, that one was fun. I started. Ok. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.