Hello to all of you. Unconventional conventions. Welcome back to Rocky Talkie. I'm Nicky. I'm John. Try again. And I'm Aaron. Then I'm Maron. Hello, John and Aaron. How are you? All right, I'm Maron. Hey, guys. Did you really? No, not in the Yeah, that's what I thought I'm doing pretty well. I think it was the most, a recent episode of Rocky Talkie that we did because at this point, like all of my days are running together and I don't genuinely remember which show is which, but I woke up late earlier this week to a pleasant message from a good friend of mine, Harley who has informed me that they have in fact recorded the low preshow from two years ago and I watched it at least 50 times because I was so happy that I finally found it. So they had it, they sent it to me and I was able to relive how amazing that free show was and that made my entire fucking week. So Harley, if you were listening to this, I love you. Thank you for recording that when my dumb ass didn't, if anyone out there is interested in watching lo the pride pre show that I talked about last time that Harley has ever so kindly sent to me, we'll post it to our youtube channel. Yeah. Get that content. Boy. Also, I'm getting my vaccine this week. Hey, yo. Oh my God, I'm so excited for you. I know I'm fucking, it was this past week but sreed up the appointment. So we get to this week. Fellas. Well, what did you do this week? Aaron, nothing quite as interesting as finding a, a legacy, historical artifact. Preshow. Uh No, I finished up the book for book club that a few of us are reading. Uh We were doing George Orwell's in 1984. I missed it in high school. Uh They weren't quite written 1984 when I was in high school. At least not at mine. So it was a good one uh for us all to do together. So we got to uh experience the, the joy of being under Big Brother's watchful gaze and uh wrapped it all up. Uh Spoilers. It ends poorly. You're in a book club. Yeah. Book clubs for winners, bro. Fucking nerds. Listen, John, I didn't make fun of you watching youtube videos all day just because you can't read John's a hi pass it down. Oh, that's absolutely correct. What the hell is a, yeah, like I'm really hot but I'm stupid. Oh, ok. Yeah. No, that makes sense. Yeah. All right. What do you do? Nicky. So I'm actually really excited about this and I know, like, so sue me, it's Rocky related. But I found out this week that, uh, this Friday, I'm playing Colombia for the first time in over a year and a half and I'm so ecstatic. I literally, I went shopping the other day and I got all new Columbia makeup and like, I got red nail polish. I'm going to paint my nails. I bought a new Stier. Like I'm so excited. I literally cried when I found out like, I've missed playing this role so, so much and I'm so excited to, to give her a go. I love that for you. Yeah. How the hell are you turning around a, in a week? So I actually, I had a cast member who I was going to buy the off of a year and a half ago and then I stopped playing Colombia. So I was like, oh, I don't need it. And I just reached out to him and I was like, hey, are you still selling? And he was like, yeah, so I'm going to buy it on Friday. I was like, uh I don't know if you've ever assembled a baby. It was premade. I've worn it so many times. I just never bought it out. Right. Very nice. That's awesome with that. I think we should just get started with our first segment in Global Beep. Beep, beep, beep, beep. So first up in global news. A few weeks ago, we did a piece about the Clinton Street Theater in Portland, Oregon. The theater that holds one of the longest unbroken streaks of most consecutive weekly showings of the Rocky Horror Picture Show. They've been showing it every Saturday since 1978. Throughout the pandemic. The theater kept its streak alive by continuing to show the film often to an audience of one person, Nathan Williams, the theater's Rocky, MC Nathan kept the torch burning on his own for 54 consecutive weeks from March 15th, 2020. All the way through to April 3rd, 2021 when the theater finally reopened, of course, choosing Rocky as their first movie to screen while the Clinton Street cabaret cast won't be back to performing for a while. A lot of the cast members came to the reopening night celebration on April 3rd in costume while some of the audience members were virgins. Most were either current cast members or Rocky veterans who were finally able to breathe a sigh of relief as yet another important aspect of their lives took a step back towards normal. Uh You know, I adore hearing about this stuff. It has been so long since we as a community have all been able to do. You know, this stupid thing that we love. It gives me warm fuzzies to hear about the show reopening in other parts of the world. And this story actually is absolutely fascinating because it's getting picked up by a ton of news outlets. I'm seeing stories all over the place. I'm seeing radio stations doing coverage of this. I'm seeing newspapers picking up and not just local newspapers, Oregon papers all over the place. This is kind of the, the story that's being the catalyst that's getting everybody to realize that Rocky is back in the world. And also because even if we're all not back to normal right now, like we're definitely getting closer. Yeah, it definitely makes the light at the end of the tunnel of shit a tiny bit brighter. And we would love to hear more stories like this maybe from some of our listeners. So as all of you start opening, back up, feel free to write to us and tell us how it went. We want to hear from you, especially any of your, I'm going home stories throughout the next few months. Yeah, it's so exciting to be a part of a cast that is currently reopened. We reopened two weeks ago now, which is just crazy, but it's so weird being back because first of all, we've been gone for so long and so many people have had to like sit and let the idea of Rocky Horror, like just be dormant in them. So we are selling out shows. We've sold out the first show within like two days. Our second show now is sold out already and the 30th which is going to be the next show that F N S does is already selling, like it's already going. So if you're from New Jersey and you want to go see Rocky Horror, get your tickets now, it's really cool. It's so exciting and it's so different, but it still feels so familiar and it really still feels like home and I just can't wait for other casts to be able to take that step to the right direction and reopen when it's safe and possible for them to do so. I'm disgusted with you. It was cute. But I'm disgusted. Congrats to our friends in Portland. We are all thrilled for you and we can't wait to be back ourselves. Well, me and Aaron, yes, seriously. But not news for us. But news for all of our UK listeners, there's a sing along screening of Rocky Horror that will be coming to Manchester this summer and it will include bottomless booze and popcorn for all guests. Ok? So now when you say bottomless Aaron pants, dance off. No, not, not the good kind. Just, you know, unlimited liquor, beer and wine, which is, I mean, the good kind. Yo, this sounds like a great time. Like I'm not much of a booze guy, but I will eat the shit out of some bottomless popcorn. It really does sound like a lot of fun. The event will be hosted on August 15th by the bottomless singing cinema. Tickets are either £25 or £37 depending on whether you want the boozy or the crunchy option. I'm 100 and £60. Good for you. Good for you. Yeah. Bottomless singing cinema encourages all guests to dress up for the event and come prepared to sing their hearts out and honestly, with unlimited booze, that probably won't be a problem for most people. So, along with the Rocky Horror, the group also plans to put on screenings of the greatest showman, Bohemian Rhapsody and Mama Mia over the summer. If you're one of our UK listeners and you get to attend, let us know right in. Tag us in your photos. We love to live vicariously. As always, we've got a link to the event in our show notes. All right, moving on from there. If you're like me and shopping has been your dopamine drip of choice during lockdown, then you will love hearing about the new Rocky Horror shoe line that recently launched on little boot E dot com. Can we pause and appreciate that moment? Yeah, I mean that really makes me so happy. Yeah, that's actually that's pretty good. I like that. So little boutique is a UK based retailer that was created to bring alternative fashion to the masses at a fair price. They've been around for over eight years and they have a very hot topic. Y kind of vibe. They sell clothing, shoes, jewelry, makeup, and even home decor. Recently, the company has launched a line of Rocky shoes. They're black and white with a pattern of red lips, high heels, legs with fish nets, tidy whities, the R K O Tower and the words Rocky and anticipation. They come in a bunch of different styles slip on loafers, flat mary jeans that are to die for high tops, low top lace ups. And there are even ones that look like Uggs, all the shoes are custom made and printed. I guess you can't exactly run down to the Joanne's and pick up that sort of fabric. So it takes roughly 6 to 8 weeks for them to be printed and shipped. They are super cute though. So totally worth the wait. You can pick up a pair for £60 which is just under $83 or one 36th of a frank jacket. If you're interested in checking them out, we've linked them for you in our show notes while we're on the subject. Do either of you have a favorite Rocky themed wearable? I have tons of stuff. I love that, that, that I will talk about first. But like, can we, can we address the fact that you just use the frank jacket as like the standard Rocky commodity. Now, for comparing prices, you're proving that uh you don't listen to the show because I've been doing that since we did the Frank Jacket episode. No, I know, but like it happens so often now that I just, it's important comparison. These people need to know what they're buying into. That's fair. I love how it's a unit of measurement. Now, how much is it? A third of a friend jacket? And I know exactly what you mean when you say that, I know how much money I'm going to spend anywhere between 816 $100. But, yeah. No, I've got a couple of Rocky themed things that I absolutely love. I've got this like spoof Friends t-shirt that's got the Rocky characters on it and it says Furter, I think or something. I don't know. I'm not here huge Friends fan, but I absolutely love that shirt because it's funny as shit. It is very nice too. I've watched my Fair Share of Friends. So let's, let's not even do that. But like I, I do like it. I've got a cast t-shirt. I really like the, the New York cast t-shirt looks really cool. We've got the Statue of Liberty in fish nets and garters doing its thing on it. I think that one's fun. I wear that one all the time. I think those are the two. Like I wear those the most things I don't think I have a single thing that I fucking wear because I hate Rocky F N S has a custom Con logo and it's the Asbury Park Tilly but disguised as Frank. So we call it Frank and Tilly. And in the summer of 2018, they released a limited edition tank top in red and white with the logo on it. I bought both of them and I think it's so gorgeous. Like it's just it goes with everything because it's just like standard black and white or black and red. And so I wear it with like once, once summer hits like June 1st, that's like my go to for every single outfit. I love it. Very nice. And John, what are you talking about? Didn't we give you some horrendously ugly Frank shirt? Like a while back? I was actually just about to say that. So Megan Aaron gifted me this like like literally the most hideous tank top I think I've ever seen in my entire life. It has the the throne scene from sweet transvestite on it with Frank and like walking down the runway as it were, I guess. Uh and it has like the Transylvania Convention banner in the back and it's like a double XL for those of you who have no idea what I look like. I'm a medium on a back day. So it's a dress is what it is. Listen, that's a fashion moment. No, it really is a belt on that bitch. Yeah, I could throw a belt on it and call it some fish fashion some high, high, but I do regularly wear it when I feel like wearing clothes to bed. You know, it's a sleep shirt. Listen, Alibaba didn't have options that were smaller than that. So last up in global news, if the lack of weekly rocky performances have got you missing your weekly dose of Tim curry. We've got some good news on Saturday May 15th at three PM for my birthday, Galaxy Con will be hosting a Tim curry virtual experience featuring, you guessed it. None other than our favorite mad scientist himself. We've got a link to the event for you on our show notes. If you want to check it out, it sounds like a good time. I mean it's for my birthday and all. So it's also for Andrea's birthday. Yeah. Wow, you and Andrea almost have the same birthday. I had no idea. You were a tourist queen. Oh, I'm the most tourist tourist that ever tourists go off. Girl boss. I too astro. But yeah, Tim will be offering fans personalized autographs, including the option to send in your favorite Tim curry related item to have signed. Plus the opportunity to schedule a one on one video chat like past Galaxy Con video chats. These video chats can be purchased at two minutes per session and you can book up to five sessions for a total of 10 minutes of chat time with Tim. There's no word about cause yet but in his past appearances, Tim hasn't come cheap although I'm sure he makes it worth your while if you know what I mean. What exactly do you mean? I don't know man, but I'm pretty sure most people cream their jeans when they talk to Tim Curry. I certainly know I would sounds like a happy ending to me. A happy ending to our global news segment that is, uh and with that now it's on to. So first up in community news who's ready for another virtual show. I know I fucking am. The ordinary kids will be REBROADCASTING their virtual performance on April 17th at a nine pm Eastern. The performance will take place on their Twitch channel, Twitch dot tv slash ordinary kids. N J the N J stands for New Jersey. New Jockstraps stands for Nicole and Josh, I hate that if you all haven't seen this show yet, we cannot recommend it enough. It is absolutely a fantastic time and even if you've already seen it, it's definitely going to be a fun rewatch the way they cut together, the show was absolutely insane in like the best way possible. And this time, the ordinary kids are even going to be including a live post show, Q and A session that you'll be able to pick their brains about all their crazy editing. I cannot wait. Well, if you or any of our listeners want to submit a question for the Q and A sesh, you can email in a question ahead of time. Just send them to ordinary kids 2020 at Gmail dot com to be vetted and possibly included in the event. We're so pumped to tune in and we hope you'll join us if you're interested in checking out the show, we've included all the info and links for you down in. You guessed it. Our show notes and speaking of virtual shows, we want to give a huge round of applause to J C C P. Their virtual show was rebroadcast last weekend on R H P S Live and it was really just the perfect way to spend a Saturday night. I was so psyched for this one. I'm a huge fan of everything J C C P puts on the way they did their casting for some of the roles was so different and fun to watch. I love that. They used so many Franks for sweet tea and everyone got a turn to be in the spotlight and to get me started on the one person floor show bit like it was just the epitome of, I guess this is how we're doing Rocky in 2020 and like the absolute best way. And I'm gonna be honest, it took me until Brad solo to even realize that it was just the same person in all of the roles. So mad props to them for switching up their look so much. I loved signing rem it's such a wonderful bit that's been catching on more and more recently and I love to see it normalizing inclusivity during performances is so important and it really warms my heart whenever we get to see people who are able to incorporate that sort of inclusion into their characters in a way that seems both natural and seamless. Didn't J C C P air a few different shows last year? Maybe we'll see more J C C P rebroadcast in the future. I certainly wouldn't be mad about getting a new screening of Reefer Madness. Just saying. Who said that? Did you say John? Did you say that? No, I I swear, I just heard someone say that J C C P should rebroadcast their reform. You need to stop smoking weed, Nicky. You know what disembodied voice, who we have no idea who said that? We can only hope. But for now, we want to say thank you for a great show. We had a blast tuning in and we cannot wait to get even more of your awesome work sometime soon. Either virtually or in person. Hey, speaking of in person shows Sweet Translucent Dreams, otherwise known as STD A cast based in Pennsylvania will be performing at the Moonlight drive in in West Wyoming P A. The show will take place on Saturday, May 8th. The theater gates open at 6 30 PM and the preshow starts at dusk. Tickets are only 10 bucks and you can buy them online or in person at the theater. I want to go where the heck is West Wyoming as somebody who grew up in Philadelphia, I can tell you right now that this is the first time I have ever heard of West Wyoming, Pennsylvania. But a quick Google search tells me that it's about 2.5 hours west of Manhattan or about, like, two hours north of Philadelphia. So, my sister actually lives two hours north of Philadelphia in another town. I don't know how close they are, but that is so much closer than I thought. And I'd love to go west Wyoming. Kind of makes it sound like it's way out in like Wyoming. Yeah, it's really not that far from us. You could probably get tickets and go if you wanted to. It's only 15 minutes from my sister's house. I'm going. Yeah. Road trip, road trip, road trip, road trip, road trip. I'm waiting to be cut off road trip, road trip, road trip, road trip. Is this never ending? I, I feel like this isn't the first time or the last that you have floated an idea of a road trip on the show, man. I just want to leave my house already. Nikki. At least you work outside of your house. Ok. Seriously, if everyone listening also wants to leave their house for some safe socially distanced rocky horror, you can learn more info about the show at STD. Fuck. Uh You can learn more info about the show at STD R H P S dot net. STD. Such an unfortunate acronym. I'm so sorry for all of you. Oh, they fucking knew are you kidding me? That is like front page of, are they fucking no, like uh love it pretty apt as well. Well, guys, we've got an update about the community doodle done by our friend El DAO or Franken food. If you follow him on Instagram for the last few months, he's been working on an illustration of Rocky horror, shadow casting community members. The doodle features lots of gorgeous illustrations of in costume performers from our community who we all know and love including me, Deo reached out to us this week to let us know that the illustration is complete and that prince will be up for sale very soon. The plan all along has been to donate any proceeds raised through the print sales to local food banks. Hence Frank and food, which is so sweet and just a generous move to make and we'll let all of you know, the minute these prints go up for sale, we're really excited about them and we can't wait to stag them. We hope all of you will too. They are gorgeous and they're for an amazing cause you can check out the finished product by going to Davio's account at Frank N Fooder on Instagram. And last up in community news, we've got an update from monster mask artist Russ Turk. He's been working on a Rocky horror themed project for the last couple of weeks and he just finished up a frankfurter mask and was kind enough to share, not just pictures but an entire video about how he made it. If you're like me and you're super artsy, you'll love this video. It's amazing to see the level of intricate detail that goes into making one of these pieces. There's a whole latex molding process, then he sews in all the hair and hand paints it. It's really neat and the end result is beautiful in a slightly horrifying sort of way. Russ posts all of his pieces in his Etsy store, which is Turk monster masks. The frankfurter mask sells for $550 or about 1/5 of a Frank jacket. If you're an art collector, a rocky collector or just in the market for a really beautiful and unique art piece, we absolutely recommend his shop. Russ also makes lots of posts about his different projects to his Facebook and Instagram pages for people who are interested in the creation process. We'll link all of that in our show notes for listeners who are looking to shop or for a fun rabbit hole to venture into. Hey, speaking of fun holes, it's nack time like snack time, but Nack, it's nack time. Oh my God. I hate that. God. You're such a genius and it makes me mad. So boys, it's everyone's favorite segment. Nicky asks a question. I E na na na, but I was hoping we could get into some Riff lore. This week. I was talking with F N S S Riff trainer and he said that all of Frank's ideas were stolen from Riff and that Riff knew Brad and Janet were coming because he planned the whole thing. I'm so curious and I really, really, really just need to know more about this angry greasy man. Can we get into it angry greasy man talking about Riff or here talking about me? So Riff's story kind of like we did for Columbia, kind of like that. Yeah, like I feel that and specifically did Riff Plan Brad and Janet coming to the castle and who built Rocky and all the other stuff? I know a lot of tidbits that we've gone over before in previous episodes. So maybe we start with some of that like Richard o'brien didn't conceive of the original stage show thinking he would play Riff Raff. He had written the character of Eddie for himself, right? It was actually Jim Sharman who wanted o'brien to play Riff. Raff Sharman said in his memoir that casting the author as the master servant caused a great tension between Richard o'brien and Tim Curry, which he was delighted and fully exploiting when he was shooting the film. And in the earliest version of the script, Riff wasn't Riff. He was the hunchbacked minion named Joe Vitus, a mashup of rock singer Joe Cocker and the Saint Vitus Dance Muscular Disorder. And he was soon renamed Riff Raff, which o'brien commented on in a 2008 special for New Zealand TV. So Richard o'brien explained patiently to the viewer. It's a literary and theatrical device to give a character a name that tells us about the character. In Jacobian comedy. We have the name face, the alchemist face tells you everything about the person duplicity. We have ladies, we have snare well and teasel names like this. They tell us something about a character and they allow us to enjoy the character on a deeper level. Yia Heap. What a wonderful name that is. It's a made up name by Dickens, but immediately you think of a urine. So dunk he don't you heap. It's from David Copperfield. The magician. Never mind. Wait, what is there another David Copper? There's a book. It's a book. It's called David Copperfield. John, you bullied me like an hour ago for not knowing how to read. And now you're going to talk about a book I can't read. I just know the name of it. How did you read the name? Someone told me it carry on. So yeah, Joe Vitus became Riff Raft because that's literally what the character is. He's the Riff Raff that just hangs about and you can definitely see that Riff is styled after the typical Igor character in Frankenstein. You know the hunch, the slow awkward gate, the hollowed out appearance. Like one of the big inspirations that Richard o'brien has cited is Boris Karloff's Drunken Man serve at Morgan in the 1932 horror film, the Old Dark House, which if you ever want to kind of see what rocky horror would be like as you know, a real actual horror film, check out the dark old house. It is beyond fucking weird, man. But I, I really like the whole like Igor homage a lot. I, I love Igors as a character. Uh If you've ever read Terry Pratchett's Discworld series of books, it's set in like a comedic fantasy universe. It's a spoof on a lot of different tropes. And in there, there's an entire race of Igors. They're portrayed always as the dutiful servant who never ask questions or would ever claim that their master is mad. There's a footnote that I love from one of the books and it, it goes like this Igors were loyal but they were not stupid. A job was a job when an employer had no further use for your services, for example, because he'd just been staked through the heart by a crowd of angry villagers. It was time to move on before they decided that you ought to be on the next stake. An Igor soon learned a secret way out of any castle and where to stash an overnight bag in the words of one of the founding Igors. We belong dead. Excuse me. Where do we? Yeah. Uh Listen, Aaron, I'm not a fucking nerd. OK. So I don't read, I can't read. But even if I could read, I'm not a nerd. Right. So, um, I haven't read those, uh, and Nicky tries to be a nerd but she isn't. So I can guarantee you that Nicky also has not read whatever the fuck you just said into that microphone. Yeah, but they do kind of sound hilarious. Shut up. Nicky. They are hilarious. I absolutely promise. They're, they're one of my favorite book series but whatever, not important we're talking about Igor here. So, I mean, I, I love the Igors in Terry Pratchett's World and I, I kind of get that same vibe from Riff Raff, right? He's there to do Frank's bidding. But if the shit hits the fan, he's gonna grab his sister and hightail it back to Transylvania. I get that. Riff is obviously a more dangerous and complicated character than your typical Igor man servant. But the eco angle is definitely played up in the earliest version of the stage show. Shortly after the glitter incident that we covered in episode 16. The original Rocky horror show cast finally hired an understudy, but Frank was only understudied by Richard o'brien himself. So when Tim inevitably had to take a few shows off, the understudy, Ziggy Byfield played Riff, he recounted that he always played Riff as Igor in the same style as Richard did as the master servant. But the character was more dangerous than just that. He said you had to give the impression that Riff always knew too much. And now we are talking, is there a conspiracy there that Riff was the one who actually created Rocky and that he transferred half of Eddie's brain into Rocky and developed all the technology to bring him to life? Or is he just all spaced out on a bunch of morphine kind of going through horrible cycles of addiction and ups and downs and eventually just gets bored and snaps more like a disgruntled employee than an underappreciated genius, right? This is part of the argument we were having and it's not like there's actually a ton of supporting evidence in the script for any of it. It's all subtext and character interpretation. And because of that, you can choose how far between the lines you choose to read. So when I was talking to the Riff trainer, he was talking about how Riff as a character is so full of rage and based on rage because all of his ideas are being profited off of by Frank who just took a back seat, let rift do all the work and then got all the glory and also to my knowledge and again, people can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not wrong in one, at least one of the iterations of the stage show. Riff says as a result of talking to Rocky, he's a credit of my, I mean, your genius master. That is a phrase that is uttered in the stage show. And I know that the stage show and the movie are two different things. But I think in the grand scheme of like the ethos of Riff Raff as a character is that one of the main things that fuels him as a character is like what your Riff trainer said is rage and jealousy and sheer unabashed anger for Frank, for taking credit for everything John. Is that exactly what we say later? No, but I fucking love you. Yeah. Nicky told us about this. Nicky asked a question, I did some research on it and Meg and I had this whole conversation out about like what are the reasons why he would? And I used the exact example that you just used as a citation to her and she's like, well, no, it doesn't count. That's, that's in the stage show, not the movie. Well, ironically that's also kind of why this came up when we were doing uh riff training is because the trainer was talking about how in the stage show, he literally said that. So just to provide more supporting evidence. And I mean, if we're going to be realistic, sorry, everyone, the movie fucking sucks and the stage show fucking rocks. So I'm going to take the one that fucking rocks, the one that fucking sucks. So speaking of things that fucking rock or in this case actually kind of suck unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, we we do have a real answer, but it's not a real answer in the way that you probably want. Why? Because it's stuff that Richard o'brien has said, but it's not canonically in the film. So how much value do you place on the author being allowed to define canon? And actually let's take a brief moment and talk about what canon is if you are not familiar with this term and you're not a super huge nerd. The word cannon actually comes from the Bible doesn't really, I didn't know that. Yeah, the etymology of like what is canon and what is not uh canon is actually a word that is used to talk about the legitimacy of a sacred scripture in the Bible because like there are some books of the Bible that aren't considered canon and that's where the word came from because they're not in the act, they're not listed as genuine. They're not listed as like coming from the same sources that the Bible is written of like the, the Bible that we know it is written as like for example, there's like a book of Mary Magdalene, which doesn't actually exist because no one can trace who actually wrote it or trace a general area as to who wrote it. So there's a lot, there's a lot that goes into it. So something that is can is traditionally considered true by the author's point of view in terms of the universe that they have created. So, is this a problem in the same way that people think Dumbledore being gay is a problem. Or in the wizards used to magic away poop before indoor plumbing kind of problem. What is that real J K Rowling said it? Oh, I see. So what did Richard say? Do we have a poop problem here? Gross. No. So we've actually got a couple of sources. So there's a, a fun one and another one. So let's look at the fun one. First in the 15th anniversary soundtrack box set, there is an included booklet that has a letter that is written from Riffraff, which is actually written by Richard o'brien. And you know what, I'll just let you read it for yourself, John. Can you, can you read this? The real story of what happened in that house is known only by me and my late sister and obviously she's no longer talking. It was me that built the monster Rocky Horror. It was me that contacted all the Transylvanian representatives and made sure they turned up. It was me that locked Eddie and Reeser me that saw to it that he was cooked to a turn. But did I get any? Thanks. No, quite frankly, I've had quite enough of propping up my employer against so called. He never even noticed the many kind acts that I was continually performing for him. But let me make just one trifling hardly worth mentioning mistake and look out for a very identifiable flying object accompanied by a lot of filthy obscenities. You can only take so much. OK. So you literally have Richard as Riff saying it. But does it count? I mean, I like to think it does. It's pretty explicit there. It's in black and white. But wait a minute, what's this about Magenta being dead? Where does that come from? The real story is known only by me and my late sister and obviously she's no longer talking. So like when the hell did Magenta die? Well, OK. This is apparently written in universe for the revenge of the old queen sequel that was never produced. Magenta is dead in revenge of the old queen. She's in a coffin and Riff kind of climbs in and has happy fun time with her corpse. Sometimes it's a little creepy. Um But it's implied that Riff killed her after they blasted off from the castle in order to cover up that he had killed Frank. This actually makes me so sad. I've never heard this, but I feel like a lot of Magenta's character is like sweet transsexual, like wanting to go back home and now knowing that she didn't get to makes me really upset, but I digress. So this note from Richard though would require revenge of the old queen to be Canon. But where would that leave shock treatment? The sequel we got isn't canon but the unmade one is now Cannon. Your logic is a bit suspect here it's more than suspect based on some of the exposition in revenge of the old queen. It would actually mean that shock treatment can't be cannon because in revenge of the old queen. Brad ends up dead after being a bottomless Vegas go go dancer and Janet ends up a hooker and Brad looks pretty fucking alive in shock treatment. And I don't remember Janet sucking any dick for crack. All right. Oh Jesus May maybe, maybe that one isn't great. We went, you know, that got a little dark. Let's let's try another one. So this is a direct quote from an interview by Rob Cope in 1990 Richard o'brien confirmed that Riff had been the one that was behind Rocky's creation. So here's what Richard said. He said, I always said this in the subtext to myself. When I was playing Riff, I built Rocky Frank, didn't. He was having champagne and smoking joints and fucking people. I was doing all the work in the laboratory. He's got all the glamour, he's got all the chat. Everybody thinks he's fucking wonderful. But actually I'm wonderful, but nobody can see it in many ways. It's the best part. Frank gets all the adulation. But to play a good Riff is a bit daunting really because you have to have a lot of the power behind the throne. Resentment and an incestuous relationship which isn't spoken about with Magenta. It's subtext, subtext, subtext and this quiet, pulsating resentment. That's there. So when the worm turns, he wants to be in control, it builds on the fact that when Magenta says, but I thought you'd liked them, they liked you. We get this paranoid little human being who, you know, is a human being revealing himself. I think it's actually a great part to play. However, it's not seen to be so because Frank steals all his glory, but the more Frank steals the glory, the better the part is to play. Ok, so there you go. He literally says it in no uncertain terms that Riff created everything and Frank did nothing but smoke and fuck. I don't know John over here in critically reading land, you'll notice that Richard said that this was the subtext that he was saying to himself as he was playing Riff. So, ok, that's definitely what Riff was thinking the entire time. But was it true? Did he actually do all the work or did he just feel like he did all the work? Was he resentful that Frank did all the thinking and he did all the grunt work. Was he pissed because he was one of those people that lounges around all day at work and then complains the minute that they are asked to do anything, maybe Riff was just a morphine junkie who couldn't handle that. His boss was having more fun and was more liked and then he blows it all up at the end. He reveals that Riff is a, his words weak, paranoid human being. So, yeah, maybe it was all just paranoia in his head. It might have been what Riff was thinking, but maybe it's not reality. I can't believe I'm gas lighting Riff right now. So, the debate rages on. I mean, I like to think that Riff really was the mastermind. I certainly know that's how I play Riff on stage. Like, he's a disgruntled servant, getting increasingly annoyed by Frank. I like to do dumb shit. Like mutter under my breath to the people in the first row. Anytime I get handed a prop to take off stage or move the throne or whatever, I'm muttering R roof. Move the phone R R pick up the P er R moved the microphone. I'm gonna kill him. One of these dude, I'm just gonna just gonna fucking blast him. You know, it's funny. I like it. See you and Richard are on the same wavelength. If only the rest of the audience knew that you were really the most important person on stage. It's so obvious if only they knew. Yeah, Aaron, at least when I play Riff, my riff knows that he's the absolute fucking center of the universe and isn't some mopy little bitch. Oh Like or like so when I play Riff, my characterization of him, at least just in terms of like allowing the audience to enjoy my riff just as much as I enjoy playing Riff because Riff is my favorite character to play. He was my first to play and always will be my favorite. I wanted to play Riff as dirty and as gross as I possibly could. I wanted people to leave the theater hating me because of how gross I was on stage. And unfortunately, what ended up happening is that in the process of doing that, everyone just kind of decided that my riff is the hottest human being on the planet. So like, I'd be sitting up there during dinner scene, picking my nose and eating it on stage and people be like, John's Riff is hot. Says a lot about Rocky people really, you know, it does say a lot about Rocky people. Absolutely does. So like when I, so I started, my characterization of Riff started as like, I'm going to be so extremely gross because my thought process there is like, well, why isn't Frank giving Riff the attention that he deserves? Probably because he's fucking gross. So I was like, I'm just gonna to embody that, that like dirt ball mentality. And then everyone was like, John's Riff is hot and I was like, y'all are fucking gross. But now I just, I'm just going to be hot now. So my my riff now is like hot gross garbage. That's my band name. It's like the smell of garbage that you can't wait to get rid of. But you still kind of want to smell it. A little bit while you're getting rid of it. You know, I hate that. I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's kind of it. That, that's my characterization of Riff and it's not accurate, but I don't give a fuck because I'm hot when I play a ref and that's all that matters to me, man. Rocky people. We were all the kids sitting in the corner eating paste, weren't we? Yep. I'm still the kid in the corner eating paste. I'm doing it right now. So, where are we undecided on this one? Is it plausible that Riff made Rocky? I think I'm going to spread my ass cheeks and sit down firmly on the fence post. Ouch. It's possible that Riff did all the work and made Rocky. But I also think it's totally likely that he was just high possessed the whole time and resented being the underling. But if you're willing to take Richard's words for Cannon, as the author, Riff certainly believed he had done all the work in his subtext and explicitly says he did all the work in the 15th anniversary booklet and I will point out nothing about Magenta being dead would require that the rest of the revenge of the old queen script be true. She could have died in some other way. That doesn't mean that it has to have been the way that she died in revenge of the old queen. I mean, maybe, maybe, well, great Aaron. Thanks for nothing. How about the other question or am I going to be disappointed here too? Did Riff plan Brad and Janet coming to the Castle Riffs at the wedding with Magenta Columbia and Frank. Were they scoping out the humans deciding on a couple to abduct? Was it all planned? So that one I think is even sketchier. The inclusion of Riff and the gang at the wedding is an artistic choice. It's a throwback to the Wizard of which we went into a ton in episode 17. I mean, they could have been the same characters in disguise. Like things can serve an artistic purpose and a plot purpose. Sure. But you've got another artistic reason for their inclusion and not many other plot based reasons. They're also doing the homage to the American Gothic painting by Grant Wood which is later revealed in the castle next to the coffin clock. And it's echoed even later during takeover when Riff's space gun is a pitch fork, which is the same that is held in the American Gothic painting and that Riff is holding during the wedding. Sure. But nothing you're saying means that they couldn't have planned it, they could have rigged Brad's car to get a flat. They certainly already knew about Dr Scott. So maybe they also knew about the people in Denton who knows how long they'd been on earth or what their real mission was. Ri tells Frank his mission was a failure during takeover. But what was that mission? Was it to make the perfect and play toy and Rocky to integrate with their Earthling culture and corrupt innocent humans to spread the Transylvanian way or maybe something more sinister as a reconnaissance team for an invasion, like it's never explained. And that one to my knowledge is never explicitly explained anywhere. The common conjecture among fans actually comes from a Dory Hartley fan Fike piece that was originally published in the Transylvanian fanzine and later republished in the national release of Yeah, the Transylvanian fanzine and reprinted in several other fanzines set up again fanzine. Thank you. Oh, that's the one you have that I read Dory wrote that years ago, Transylvania sent a crew to Earth to explore human lifestyles and find out if they were suitable for the Hedonistic Transylvanian ways. They reported back to the queen that there was much potential and she planned a mission where she sent the court scientist Dr Franken Furter, chosen for his knowledge of American thirties and forties pop culture and sent him to Earth accompanied by Riff and Magenta, two upstanding members of Transylvanian society. Wow, that comes from a fan. I thought that was like legit the story. Yeah. No, that was written by Dory Hartley in 1978 and published all over the place. Plus it tied in directly to revenge of the old queen, which rumors were floating around about at that point. So it makes sense. Everybody had heard about it in the community but nobody these days can actually source it well except us because we're fucking awesome. Also, can we take a moment to point out as dory says, Frank isn't just Frank. You guys are giving him no respect. He is doctor F D R. Doctor. I don't see no doctor in front of Riffraff's name. What he wants to take credit for all this work, bitch, please. He's just a hacksaw jockey. The doctor had to tell him where to cut impeccable logic. Nicky, what's Frank's middle name? And Nicole Frank Nicholas Furter? No, Nicky, Frank Nicole Furter. I guess that wraps it up then. Hold on. I've got one more fun. Riff Raff conspiracy theory before we go, right. What's all this then? So, so here it is. Was it Riff's plan to kill Frank the entire time? What? No, hold on, hold on, hold on. Ok. So in the elevator when Janet asks if Frank is married, Riff says the master is not yet married, but then he follows it up with nor do I think he ever will be uh uh which is like super rude. You walk into this nice party and are like, oh, hey, nice house, great party. The host is absolutely lovely and you ask the butler is the host married and he just right back at you. He was like, fuck no, that bitch ain't never getting married rude, right? So at face value. The line is a throwaway reference to Frank being super freaky and sexy, what whatever. However, given Frank's ultimate demise at the hands of his vengeful faithful Andy man, you could believe that Riff's insinuation that Frank was never marry, coupled with the knowing glance that he gives to Magenta could imply that he actually is secretly already planning Frank's death on the night that he finally completes his great creation. See as still the beast is feeding one of the preeminent rocky horror books, explains, understated facial expressions and subtle nuance in a talented actor's performance can further expand an audience's understanding of riffraff often revealing unexplored depths of a fascinating multilayered individual now. But buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz meg. Help me out here right now. Yeah. Are you insinuating that Richard o'brien is a talented actor? Stop I call bullshit. That's just dumb. First of all, Riff didn't say that he wouldn't get married because he thought he was going to die. Riff was just implying that Frank was a whore and rightfully so go girl, you get it roof wasn't planning on killing Frank till after he had seen everything that went down with Eddie and seducing Bratt and Janet and cannibalizing Eddie and dressing them all up for floor show and doctor showing up and risking exposing everything. But, but what if he had predicted that all of that would happen? And he just needed a catalyst. A little spark and he found out about this wedding. So he went and set it up so that all the pieces would be in place. That would make sense. But Riffraff isn't jigsaw from fucking saw Aaron. No. See, but he knew that's why he had the pitch fork at the beginning. Maybe he had hidden the laser gun in the pitch fork just in case he needed to, you know, capture Brad and Janet if his flat tire plan hadn't gone to plan, right? And that's why he was looking at them as they came to the castle during there's a light, right? Everything going according to plan. Well, he ruined it. Congratulations. No, no, no, no. I think we really have something here because then if you take the remake into it, that's all the time we have for today folks. No, no. Also there's some stuff that was in Rocky horror shows as heels where and that's our show. If you've got a question, you'd like us to answer on air for Nicky asks a question or some community news you'd like us to talk about or even just a cool story from your time in the Rocky horror community. We'd love to include it in our show. Just go to our website rock talky podcast dot com and fill out our contact form to share with us. We all really love getting to hear about the cool shit that you've been working on. We're totally obsessed with all the Rocky horror projects that have been floating around out there. And we really enjoy getting to share your work with the whole community. Plus, if your cast is working on something fun, like a virtual show or maybe even a real life show, send that in too. We'll help you spread the word. If you're enjoying Rocky talkie, please help us out by rating, reviewing and subscribing to the show. It makes the podcast more accessible to new listeners, which really helps us to grow the show. And if you want even more Rocky Talky content, check us out on Facebook, Instagram and tiktok all at Rocky Talkie podcast or follow us on youtube. We'll talk to you next week. Bye. Ok. So Riff at the wedding is saying that like, you know, when he throws the thing to the original plot of the movie, I mean, I, I kind of agree with you. I mean, I don't even believe that shit. I literally tuned all of that out the minute you start. I'm sorry, I don't know that I wanted to end on something stupid and ridiculous like that because like, I kind of feel that all of the conversations people have about this are just like, oh, oh, Riff is the one. No, Frank's the one. Well, ok, so £96 pink. No, it's £92 £92. And so if you've never been to like a UK sing along, I haven't either, but I've got some tips and some information about what to expect. Actually, I don't just go read a UK Facebook group anyway because there was no, a sing along is more like, um, it's like going to an Alamo Draft house and it just so happens, they don't yell at you when you sing. Like, yeah, I mean, what they bring out all, like, they bring out their kids and they all dress up in really weird janky costumes. Like, not even necessarily Rocky costumes. Like going to a Rocky Horror sing along in the UK is kind of like going to just a random Halloween party. Yeah. I don't know. It's still probably a fuck ton of fun and hell, I'll take anything that lets me get out of the house. So, are you kidding me? Oh, these might be. I know Mary jeans and I was like, oh, those are pretty hot. Those Mary jeans are so cute. I'm going to buy them right now. Will God let me for £59. You want to spend $75 on $75? Yeah. Exchange rates like 1.25 or one also, it takes 6 to 8 weeks. So we're, we're about to talk about all of this in the Oh, no. Ok. Well, I guess we'll get back to that. Have you ever set foot in a Joanne's Rocky Horror? Where the fuck is there? A Joanne's Hale? I think so. I know about this, but there's a Joanne's where my parents are from. I mean, I've been to a, I just didn't think there were any around here otherwise I would have found them. Hm. I have this thing in New York City called the Garment District. Goddamn it, Sean. We so pumped to tune in. Fuck. That got me. So Russ posts. Quite, quite, quite, quite, I can't read his fucking writing. I know. Right. I really hate that. The word homage is spelled H O ma G E because every single time I see it, I just want to say homage. It actually makes me so happy. No, I love it. It feels so fancy and correct that I know how to pronounce it. There should be like a um No, it's perfect the way it is. There should be like a like an accent on the A Yeah. What if we just threw an H in there homage. I fixed it. There you go. Homage. They could have rigged that they could have rigged Brad's fuck.